Ferrari F430 - media pics

[htfaber]

Ferrari has released some pictures of the Ferrari F430.

(below you can see the pics)

The number refers to the cylinders of the V8: 4,3 litre. It produces 490 bhp which is 114 bhp/litre and it gives a power to weight ratio of 2,8 bhp/kg.
It has an electronic differential and a system with which you can adjust damper settings with buttons on the steering wheel. This system is called "marinetto". The gearbox will shift gears in 150 msec, accelerate from 0-100 in 4,0 sec to a top speed of 315 km/h.
In comparison the Lamborghini Gallardo will do it in 4,2 sec and to a top speed of 309 km/h and the Porsche 911 Turbo in 4,2 sec with a top speed of 305 km/h.

Looks like Ferrari has got another winner on their hands!

http://img48.exs.cx/img48/8092/1598770.jpg

http://img48.exs.cx/img48/3094/1598771.jpg

http://img48.exs.cx/img48/2434/1598772.jpg

http://img20.exs.cx/img20/1889/rear1.jpg

http://img20.exs.cx/img20/4711/top21.jpg

http://img20.exs.cx/img20/6686/wheel6.jpg

http://img20.exs.cx/img20/5615/mirror4.jpg

http://img20.exs.cx/img20/7540/interior4.jpg

[TT]

A bit small to be 100% sure, but those are not pics of a real car IMO...

Any high-res?

[htfaber]

I don't have any bigger ones, I got them from a dutch carsite http://www.autoweek.nl/newsdisp.php?cache=no&ID=2693

As for the pictures, I do think they are real, I got to admit they are small but I think it's the real deal!

[TT]

Dunno.. look at those front lights and air vents.. they just look fake.. it seems just a good render to me.. even the shadows seems wrong.. maybe it's just me...

[htfaber]

I've checked it out at the site of Auto Motor und Sport and they have the same news including a couple of new pics.

I have got to admit that these are probably not real pictures. If you look at the seats in the 3rd picture, they just doesn't look real. But I can't get around that this will be the final looks of the car.

In that case I really like it. I've had my doubts about the rear, but seen from this angle it looks really cool. But F430 on the side mirror? hmm, not really my taste.

[HoboPie]

That is like all the Ferrari media pics. The Enzo were in the exact same style and the car looks just like the pics from Mexico and more importantly like the Ferrari private unveiling.

I think it looks awesome.

[budagboy2]

i cant see anything :(

[styla21]

i think it's a very close rendition htfaber, not sure if it's the 100% finished product though. Thankyou for the pics mate

[PATo355]

That is like all the Ferrari media pics. The Enzo were in the exact same style and the car looks just like the pics from Mexico and more importantly like the Ferrari private unveiling.

I think it looks awesome.

Yes it looks the same as the one in mexico , the car is truly dissapointing , love the F430 logo tho , it remings the F40 ones , but a logo in the mirrors ? that is not good

[htfaber]

Hi budagboy2, I can't see the pictures either, but I can't figure out why it isn't working. Does everyone has the same problem and pasts the url or can you see all the pics?

[budagboy2]

Now i see, car looks verrry nice

[PATo355]

TT they are the real thing , look at this papparazi pics with a cell phone ( are they stupid :D )

http://www.elenaferrari.net/magz03.jpghttp://www.elenaferrari.net/magz1.jpg

[sameerrao]

Here you go ...

http://img48.exs.cx/img48/8092/1598770.jpg

http://img48.exs.cx/img48/3094/1598771.jpg

http://img48.exs.cx/img48/2434/1598772.jpg

http://img20.exs.cx/img20/1889/rear1.jpg

http://img20.exs.cx/img20/4711/top21.jpg

http://img20.exs.cx/img20/6686/wheel6.jpg

http://img20.exs.cx/img20/5615/mirror4.jpg

http://img20.exs.cx/img20/7540/interior4.jpg

I like the new car. It looks like a development of the Modena. The pics we saw earlier were pretty awful.

the F430 typed on the mirror is reminescent of the F40 script on its rear spoiler.

Now the Ford GT has competition. Pity the persons who paid about 40K extra for a Stradale..

[PATo355]

What about this one ?

http://img58.exs.cx/img58/1263/spy-shot-5.jpg
http://img58.exs.cx/img58/290/spy-shot-4.jpg
http://bbs.163car.com/UploadFile/20047291232167734.jpg
http://bbs.163car.com/UploadFile/20047291232923740.jpg


Quote from supercar forums

Car was presented to a select group of customers in Maranello on tuesday 20th july. Called the 430 Modena, it weighs in at 1350 kg dry and has 490 bhp (euro). It has an electronically controlled diff that the driver can adjust from the thingypit. The back is enzo - like and the front too (notably the lights). Power to weight ratio is equal to that of a CS.

[bmagni]

i dont think the pics are real, they do look like all the ferrari media pics but someone can do that to fool people.... also the f430 logo in the mirrors looks awful, thats ricer shit...

[sameerrao]

The horn buttons on the top part of the wheel looks like it will get pressed often when cornering hard...

the steering wheel looks flattened on the top like the Enzo but minus the shift change lights

The redline is at 8500 - should be a screamer like the CS... :D

BTW htfaber I dont know why your pics didnt post ... I just did a cut and paste and it worked for me :?

[PATo355]

15 minutes after seeing it im starting to like it :roll:

[budagboy2]

for some reason they dont look real to me exspecialy the one of the mirror, the only one that looks real and is real is the interior shot.

[PATo355]

Maybe but look at the pics that i posted , that proves is THE car !

[bmagni]

the only one that looks real and is real is the interior shot


yup... i think the same

[yg60m]

They are real for sure, all the Ferraris official pics have the same effect, i remember the F50, 360 and so, they were exactly the same, very artifficials ... but true :wink:
I like it, except the rear lights that i find too small but the rest seems ok.
Life will be hard for the Gallardo and 997 Turbo as it seems ( and if the low weight is verified ...).

[sameerrao]

They are real for sure, all the Ferraris official pics have the same effect, i remember the F50, 360 and so, they were exactly the same, very artifficials ... but true :wink:
I like it, except the rear lights that i find too small but the rest seems ok.
Life will be hard for the Gallardo and 997 Turbo as it seems ( and if the low weight is verified ...).

Right .. the power step up is the best part - ~+100 bhp w/o a weight penalty :D

[ngudan]

Something inside of me tells me that those pics are real.

If its not, then maybe there was never such a thing called a 360 modena :)

http://www.members.optushome.com.au/nhiphan/Dan/360_photo_threequarter.jpg

compared to...

http://img48.exs.cx/img48/8092/1598770.jpg

http://www.members.optushome.com.au/nhiphan/Dan/360_photo_top.jpg

compared to...

http://img20.exs.cx/img20/4711/top21.jpg

Judging from those 360 modena pics, i'd say theres a good chance that those 430 pics are real. Possibly only a concept, who knows. Looks great anyway.

How much will it cost?

[bmagni]

From these pics, i'd say theres a good chance those pics are real


i say if theyre real and ferrari released them. why arent they on the site ?? where are the bigger resolution ones ???
the media pics are given for the media release, and where theres a media release, there are pics of it

[ngudan]

You make a good point about why they arent on the site.

I suppose i can question as to whether or not the car has been officially released. You'd think ferrari will only release photo's after the actual debut of the car or so to speak. Everybody knows what the next gen bmw 3 series will look like via leakage of photos by unknown sources, and yet, there are no bmw 3 series photos on the official website to justify the released shots.

Well regardless, i'm only saying that theres a good possibility that those pics are 'real'. Its a question of whether it'll be the finished product or not.

[bmagni]

You make a good point about why they arent on the site.

I suppose i can question as to whether or not the car has been officially released. You'd think ferrari will only release photo's after the actual debut of the car or so to speak. Everybody knows what the next gen bmw 3 series will look like via leakage of photos by unknown sources, and yet, there are no bmw 3 series photos on the official website to justify the released shots.

Well regardless, i'm only saying that theres a good possibility that those pics are 'real'. Its a question of whether it'll be the finished product or not.

ur right bout the leakage... its just that the pics dont look real to me... well just have to wait as always

[PATo355]

They are real , look at the pics i posted , the car looks teh same and it was released the 20th of July to a private buyers

[TT]

TT they are the real thing , look at this papparazi pics with a cell phone ( are they stupid :D )

http://www.elenaferrari.net/magz03.jpghttp://www.elenaferrari.net/magz1.jpg

Dude I know how the 430 looks like, but those media pics are not a "real" car... more like computer generated ... not pics of a REAL car.. looking exactly as the real one but .. oh well I hope you got it by now

[PATo355]

Sorry TT :cry: , and yes i think those are computer generated

[Chaos in 1983!]

yup they are obviously CG...did they come from Ferrari? now that's the question...they may be, they look very good, but it may well be the work of a very skilled computer graphics expert...until Ferrari releases the pics officially we won't know for sure...but that is the way the car is gonna look like for sure...

Quite frankly...I'm beggining to accept it...I mean, it's growing on me...but IMO a Ferrari shouldn't "grow" on you...hell...I'm sure I will probably end up liking it anyways, but never as much as the timeless 355...I don't think any other Ferrari will ever look as good as the 355...

[RC45]

It has too may varied elements. Ferrari is trying too hard with the latest crop of cars.

They have no timelss beauty.

Long live the 355 ;)

[jorge]

I think it looks better than the 360, but IMO the F355 was the last truly beautiful Ferrari :|

[SFDMALEX]

/\/\/\ Are you mad man? The 550 is like the most beautiful GT on the planet!

[Caps8419]

i didnt really like it but its kinda growning on me.... reminds me of a challenge stradale on crack.... which is good.

[twboy1999]

is definitly the real picture

there are super high rez of these pics.. and if u look at thoese high rez pics.. they are real car.. not photshop

[twboy1999]

found it
here is the quote from Rennteam
he following pictures are not a photoshop job, they show the REAL thing.

V8 4.3 l engine with 490 HP, 1372 kg weight, top speed 315 kph, 0-100 kph under 4 seconds.
First shown to the public at the Paris Autoshow on Sept 21.
Cars go to customers starting first quarter 2005.


http://img44.exs.cx/img44/1431/f430.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/7907/f430-steering-wheel.gif
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/5674/f430_top.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/7568/f430wheel.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/1430/f430mirror.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/3069/f430front.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/4789/f430back2.jpg
http://img64.exs.cx/img64/7476/f430back.jpg

[Fleischmann]

Power to weight ratio is equal to that of a CS.

^^^This is what interests me...makes me wonder how good the 430CS will be :D :D :D

[TT]

found it
here is the quote from Rennteam
he following pictures are not a photoshop job, they show the REAL thing.

V8 4.3 l engine with 490 HP, 1372 kg weight, top speed 315 kph, 0-100 kph under 4 seconds.
First shown to the public at the Paris Autoshow on Sept 21.
Cars go to customers starting first quarter 2005.


http://img44.exs.cx/img44/1431/f430.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/7907/f430-steering-wheel.gif
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/5674/f430_top.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/7568/f430wheel.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/1430/f430mirror.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/3069/f430front.jpg
http://img44.exs.cx/img44/4789/f430back2.jpg
http://img64.exs.cx/img64/7476/f430back.jpg

Thanks for the highres (next time either use the thumbnails or post links)

But hell, to me it still seems a very well done render LOL.. maybe it's just the light used, but some parts in some of the pics doesn't seem right...
I suppose it is really just me, anyway the pics rock and I already like it :D can't wait for the first reviews :D

[Jabba]

Looks much more "exciting" to me than the 360 ever was.....I am sure it will be a victim of its own success though...and become "a regular site"...Ferraris to me should be rare and exclusive...and a challenge to drive and master.....I am gonna hold onto my cash for such a car....although I would still love one of these beauties....

[mindgam3]

seems as though pistonheads have got the same pics too:

"The F430 signals the arrival of a brand new generation of Ferrari 8-cylinder models. This new car takes Ferrari’s extraordinary achievements with aluminium technology, begun with the 360 Modena, to a whole new level, and offers a series of extremely significant innovations directly derived from the Ferrari Formula 1 single-seaters.

Two of these innovations are world firsts for production cars: the electronic differential (E-Diff) and the steering wheel-mounted switch (better known to the Formula 1 Scuderia’s drivers as "manettino"), which manages the integrated systems governing vehicle dynamics.

The other main characteristics of the new F430 are its light, compact 4,300 cc 90° V8 engine, which punches out 490 hp to achieve a specific output of 114 hp/litre, also providing the new Ferrari berlinetta with a weight-to-power ratio of 2.8 kg/hp (dry weight); a braking system with carbon-ceramic discs for optimal efficiency under extreme use (optional); a Formula 1-derived gearbox that cuts gear shifting times down to 150 milliseconds allowing the driver to make the very most of this truly high performance car (0-62 mph acceleration in 4 seconds flat, a top speed in excess of 196 mph) and an aerodynamic design that embodies the very latest competition technologies, specifically the flat underbody and large rear diffuser to increase downforce.

The car will be officially presented during the Paris Motor show in September 2004."

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=8972

[altezza]

F430 Technical Specifications

Dimensions
Overall length: 4512 mm 176.6 in
Overall width: 1923 mm 75.7 in
Height: 1214 mm 47.8 in
Wheelbase: 2600 mm 102.3 in
Front track: 1669 mm 65.7 in
Rear track: 1616 mm 63.6 in
Kerb weight: 1450 kg 3197 lb

Engine
Type: 90° V8
Bore/stroke: 92 mm x 81 mm 3.50 x 3.03 cu in
Unit displacement: 538.5 cc 32.86 cu in
Total displacement: 4,308 cc 262.89 cu in
Compression ratio: 11.3:1
Maximum power: 360.4 kW (490 CV*) at 8500 rpm
Maximum torque: 465 Nm (47.4 kgm or 343 lbft) at 5250 rpm
Specific horse power: 114 CV*/l

Performance
Maximum speed: >315 km/h > 196 mph
0-100 km/h (0-62 mph): 4.0 s

* For reasons of homogeneity, engine power is expressed in kW, in accordance with the International Systems of Units (SI), and CV (cavalli = horse power). The brake horse power (bhp) can be calculated as follows: 1kW = 1.34 bhp.

[RC45]

Looks much more "exciting" to me than the 360 ever was.....I am sure it will be a victim of its own success though...and become "a regular site"...Ferraris to me should be rare and exclusive...and a challenge to drive and master.....I am gonna hold onto my cash for such a car....although I would still love one of these beauties....

I further predict that the F430 will become ht emost commonly "smashed" Ferrari in history.. :P

Lets say 1 out of every 2 sold will turn around and bite the driver in the proverbial buttocks.. ;)

That way you get your "a challange to drive and master" - but they will sell far too many to be an elusive sight (I prefer the term elusive to exclusive - ;))

[Jabba]

Yes elusive or rare is more what I meant.

[sameerrao]

I wonder if the wating list is very long? Correct me if I am wrong but the waiting list on a 360M was something like 8 months for a coupe and a year or more for a spider...

RC, I am sure the 430 will be equipped with the usual alphabet soup of traction control devices to keep the car on the straight and narrow. And if most of the owners are upgrading from a 355 or 360 they should be able to handle the extra power. Its the ones who upgraded from a saloon or so that have to watch out

Jabba please get a 288 GTO ... pretty please .... rare, fast, elusive, exclusive, challenge to drive ... all that and more ... make Sameer a happy camper :D

[Ford Capri 2.8i]

Every innovations like these....the brakes, the differential, the steering wheel, the 490bhp, the light shape,....will make the car very efficient on a racetrack or on the road in good hands(skilful drivers), however, i see the 150miliseconds a bit too short time to shift a gear(i hope that im wrong).

Finally, as long as ferrari gets a non confortable car, difficult car to drive on limit, and beautifully shaped(i rely on ferrari that the 430 will fulfill these three requirements), and the manual 6 speed gearbox option as well, it will continue being one of my favourite cars ever IMO

[stradale]

I'm also convinced that these are pictures of the real thing. I think that there have been enough different sources of different pictures to say that it's very likely that this is it.
I'm not complaining, I think it looks fabulous. The front end with those fantastic air intakes in classic 'sharknose' fashion and the sharper headlight units are a great improvement on the design of the 360. The rear turned out better than what I expected, but a 360 with a challenge grille looks more mean and purposeful I think.
Overall, I'd say it's better looking than the 360. The extra power is bound to bring it right up there with the competition as well. Oh, and another thing, I love that F1-style steering wheel with the suspension switch. :D

[SFDMALEX]

Well I like this car but, maybe it will grow on me like the 360, which today is one of the most beautiful cars on earh in my eyes. What I dont like is the front end. The bumper is way to fuzzy to much stuff in there.

What is impressive are the specs. 490bhp, 0-100 in 4, 315km/h top speed! I mean that is fast so far. I think that seccurs the stragiht line battle already. And with all the diff and damper mambo jumbo it will surelly take the curvy stuff very fast.

Lambo, Chevy and Porke have some work to do....oh wait, all of them already released their latest cars :lol:

[bmagni]

i really like the car, as jabba says it might be a victim of its own success, in a company like ferrari i think its important to sell but to remain exclusive... so well have to see....


Lambo, Chevy and Porke have some work to do....oh wait, all of them already released their latest cars


i think we have to wait for the new 911 turbo...

[RC45]

i really like the car, as jabba says it might be a victim of its own success, in a company like ferrari i think its important to sell but to remain exclusive... so well have to see....


Lambo, Chevy and Porke have some work to do....oh wait, all of them already released their latest cars


i think we have to wait for the new 911 turbo...

And the C6 Z06 hasn't arrive yet.. :P Besides - how odd that Ferrari now has to comapre itself to a Chevy (and dont'f forget the Ford GT ;)) -- that means the boys in Maranello have finally realised... you can't just sell to the Cafe Latte crowd.. :P

[SFDMALEX]

/\/\/\ Are you saying that Chevy is shit basicly? And Ford in that case :wink:

And its only the 360 F1s that the Cafe Latte crowd is buying.

575 Is for esspresso drinkers you know :wink:

[Ian_yamaue]

/\/\/\ Are you saying that Chevy is shit basicly? And Ford in that case :wink:

And its only the 360 F1s that the Cafe Latte crowd is buying.

575 Is for esspresso drinkers you know :wink:

8) Master...

[ice]

And the C6 Z06 hasn't arrive yet.. :P Besides - how odd that Ferrari now has to comapre itself to a Chevy (and dont'f forget the Ford GT ;)) -- that means the boys in Maranello have finally realised... you can't just sell to the Cafe Latte crowd.. :P[/quote]

I think you seem to have things mixed up. Ferrari hardly compares itself to the Vette, seeing as how not only are they completely different in terms of execution, but the vette is a third of the price. The Ford GT is great performance wise, but its even less practical then the 360, plus ferrari has not lost any sleep worrying about sales being taken away. A new 360 still has a year wait around here. Plus, the only aspect of drving that the Gt is better at is straight line, and really, who cares if its faster, you buy more then just straight line in these cars.

Ferrari hasnt changed the way its sold cars in about 6 or seven years, its everypone else thats changing. Think about it, whats been the benchmark supercar for the last 10 years, first the 355 then the 360, the 550 then the 575. The list goes on liek that. As of now, no low production company matches ferrari's status, in fact, there fighting to gain some of it.

[fedezyl]

AAAAAAAAAANdd here we go again with the old debate.....lolol

[Ford Capri 2.8i]

Ill way till i see the definitive release at the Paris car exhibition, by the way, the pics of it look great, although i prefer the looks of the 360, or the 355...see what happens

[SFDMALEX]

/\/\/\ What old debate? :wink: I proved that the Vetter is rubbish. Only a few got some idea that they won that battle.........haha :wink:

[DeMoN]

very nice car, once again though, I rather have the concept picture they made.

[nejcdolinsek]

OMFG!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe it! I've been away from JW for a week and look what, I, Ferrari freak, have missed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I THINK I'M IN LOVE!!!!!!!!!!! That has got to be one of the best looking Ferraris ever made!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D

These pics make the mexico/spy photos look like complete shit!!!

I LOVE THIS CAR!!!!

[RC45]

/\/\/\ What old debate? :wink: I proved that the Vetter is rubbish. Only a few got some idea that they won that battle.........haha :wink:
Yep - rubbish.. :)

The difference is, that I get to daily drive a car that is faster than a 360 everywhere - straight, stop and turn - not just sit on the side lines like the "deramers" who make a life out of hating ;)

[SFDMALEX]

/\/\/\ Who said the Vetter is faster is straight, stop and turn......dream on....dream on............. :wink:

[RC45]

Plus, the only aspect of drving that the Gt is better at is straight line, and really, who cares if its faster, you buy more then just straight line in these cars.


Hmm.. that's odd - the only time the GT went up against the 360 at a number of race trcaks around the USA - the 360 was left for dead.. :)

Look - "we" don't mind giving credit where it is due... as the Primadona is an ok car for what it is - but why do the Tifosi have to resort to lies and insults in a war of words.. :)

Just admit the boring nature of the 360's performance in comparison to the rest of the field.. ;)

[SFDMALEX]

Im just playing and being ignorant when there is something that I dont like and that doesnt satisfy me. Something many people do, and something many people did. :wink:

[1zippo1]

:oops: :oops: :oops: To my great embarrasment I've missed these pics till now.

But once I've looked at them, the only thing I can say is: WOW!!!

Ferrari has done it again, they made the best better. I really thought they couldn't make a car wich I thought would look better then the 360, but they did IMO. Amazing archievement!! I'm stunned.

EDIT: but plz plz let them remove the name on the mirrors... The 360 was without design fault, plz don't let this screw the 430 up.

[noliebro]

Sweet God I just went through puberty once again. I wonder why they put the name on the mirors?

[1zippo1]

/\/\/\ What old debate? :wink: I proved that the Vetter is rubbish. Only a few got some idea that they won that battle.........haha :wink:
Yep - rubbish.. :)

The difference is, that I get to daily drive a car that is faster than a 360 everywhere - straight, stop and turn - not just sit on the side lines like the "deramers" who make a life out of hating ;)

I've never bothered to take part in these discussions, but now I feel like I have to say something.

The vette is a very good sportscar no doubt, the same goes for the Ford GT. But both are very different too the Ferrari. Frankly it all depends on what you like, and what you call sporty. IMO a high reving sportscar that tries to give you a racing car feel like the 360CS is a real sportscar. A vette or a Ford GT might be faster on track, but I wouldn't care, because IMO the 360CS is nicer to drive. I like to rev the engine up to 8000rpm's and hear it scream. Fast isn't everything, it's how the car feels that's important, and I think none is as good as Ferrari at that. But I must say that many of my thoughts are based on stuff I've read from articles or videos, since I've never driven a ferrari or a Ford GT... You can't compare till you've driven both I think, and even if you have, it depends on what you like about a sportscar.

[RC45]

Im just playing and being ignorant when there is something that I dont like and that doesnt satisfy me. Something many people do, and something many people did. :wink:

:lol: - exactly what I was thinking the last time I out accelerated and got around the traffic quicker than the last 360 I came across... :P ;)

[bmagni]

(and dont'f forget the Ford GT )


the ford gt in my opinion is supposed to be in the CGT/Enzo class but it aint good enough so they compare it with the CS and GT3

[RC45]

You can't compare till you've driven both I think, and even if you have, it depends on what you like about a sportscar.

-- like and can afford.. :D -- I have no qualms about admitting I couldn't justify spending $160,000 on a car instead of a house.. :)

[1zippo1]

You can't compare till you've driven both I think, and even if you have, it depends on what you like about a sportscar.

-- like and can afford.. :D -- I have no qualms about admitting I couldn't justify spending $160,000 on a car instead of a house.. :)

True: price/performance wise the 360 is flawed bigtime in comparison to a vette! No doubt about it. But that still doesn't make it the better drivers car.

[RC45]

You can't compare till you've driven both I think, and even if you have, it depends on what you like about a sportscar.

-- like and can afford.. :D -- I have no qualms about admitting I couldn't justify spending $160,000 on a car instead of a house.. :)

True: price/performance wise the 360 is flawed bigtime in comparison to a vette! No doubt about it. But that still doesn't make it the better drivers car.

:lol: - sure it does... ;) THAT is the point of a "drivers car"... the best "performance for the driver" - unless you're a poser.. :P

[1zippo1]

You can't compare till you've driven both I think, and even if you have, it depends on what you like about a sportscar.

-- like and can afford.. :D -- I have no qualms about admitting I couldn't justify spending $160,000 on a car instead of a house.. :)

True: price/performance wise the 360 is flawed bigtime in comparison to a vette! No doubt about it. But that still doesn't make it the better drivers car.

:lol: - sure it does... ;) THAT is the point of a "drivers car"... the best "performance for the driver" - unless you're a poser.. :P

IMO the best drivers car isn't the one which gives the best performance, but the one that gives the best driving experience. Performance naturally has to do with the driving experience, but it's not only how fast a car goes, it's also about how it goes so fast. A high reving engine like a ferrari gives more satisfaction IMO to a driver then an engine with lots of torque and cubique inches.

[Jabba]

I have no qualms about admitting I couldn't justify spending $160,000 on a car instead of a house.. :)

Yep I have to admit that as well....hence no more cars for me for a while...due to having to buy another house....not that I am moaning...but I guess you cant have everything.....

[RC45]

A high reving engine like a ferrari gives more satisfaction IMO to a driver then an engine with lots of torque and cubique inches.

Now that's pretty subjective woudln't you say... :P

The very reason I drive the car I do - is because of "how it goes fast" - and not "how fast it goes"... :) ;)

LOL :lol: - this is no doubt a circular argument that has no end.. hence the circular comparison ;)

Why not just let each enjoy their own... especially since some of ours are better than others... :P :lol:

Now - back to the regular scheduled F430 bashing.. I mean topic...:P ;)

[sameerrao]

I wish I had a cursed life like you Jabba :wink:

I am in the same boat. I have thought about getting a two door like a Porsche 964 or a Ferrari 308 - but am saving the cash for a house instead. :(

[Jabba]

Go for the house...hopefully that will go up in value...then maybe you could take a long mortgage out against it...and go for the Ferrari as well.

You only live life once...so you may as well try and make the most of it...there are no pockets in a shroud as the old and similar sayings go...I guarantee any Ferrari will put a smile on your face...the moment you turn the key.

[SilviaEvo]

okay so i havnt been around for a while and look at this huge topic!!! i had to read four pages of screaming and bikering on Vette or Ferrari or GT. i say long live Ferrari but i am going to miss the 355 and 360 :cry:

[RC45]

okay so i havnt been around for a while and look at this huge topic!!! i had to read four pages of screaming and bikering on Vette or Ferrari or GT.

Awe.... you had to read... :)

[ae86_16v]

The rear end looks so fucking agressive.

The front is okay, kind of squinty, but the rear defuser is freaking awesome!!!

[HeilSvenska]

It actually looks better than i thought it would be. It certainly looks a lot sharper than 360. And the diffusers are quite amazing, but I do seriously hope that the 600 Imola, or what ever it'll be called, will not follow this design direction.

[Caps8419]

um guys, the pics are real.. just go to ferrari's website....can't miss it.

[HeilSvenska]

um, we know, but thanks.

for the lazy people, i have kindly put the link for Ferrari's website. right here.

www.Ferrari.it

on the main page, click the flashing Starter Button on the upper-right corner.

[SilviaEvo]

yeah they have an info link on it too btw here are three pics i think you missed.
http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/f43010.jpg
http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/f43011.jpg
http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/f43012.jpg

[mindgam3]

You only live life once...so you may as well try and make the most of it...there are no pockets in a shroud as the old and similar sayings go...I guarantee any Ferrari will put a smile on your face...the moment you turn the key.

My thoughts exactly

[5vz-fe]

yeah they have an info link on it too btw here are three pics i think you missed.
http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/f43010.jpg
http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/f43011.jpg
http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/f43012.jpg

Thanx, the interior looks stunning!!!!! I could sit in those buckets forever.

[Jabba]

You only live life once...so you may as well try and make the most of it...there are no pockets in a shroud as the old and similar sayings go...I guarantee any Ferrari will put a smile on your face...the moment you turn the key.

My thoughts exactly

I think another saying is...better to look back on mistakes that you made rather than missed opportunities...or something like that.

[ice]

Hm, I have to say that it doesnt have the obvious beauty that the 360 has, or the elegance that the 355 has, but it has its own unique style to it nonetheless, and its growing on me.

Just to look back at what some say of the 355, I have to say that the 355 is the least "Ferrari" looking car they made for thier V-8's. I love it, but the lines it has are not classically Ferrari, too many straight egdes, not enough swoops and curves, nothign like a Dino or 308, more so a Mondial/348 design. Yet, in the end, still an achingly beautiful car, and with an exhaust note much nice then that of any newer Ferrari.

[adamwich]

I don't know if it is a repost, but here are some pictures of the F430 in silver.

Click on the picture for High Res

http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2004-7-24/2536490-Porsche996Turbob.jpg (http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2004-7-24/2537437-Pendulumd.jpg)

http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2004-7-24/2536490-Porsche996Turbod.jpg (http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2004-7-24/2537413-Pendulumd.jpg)

http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2004-7-24/2536490-Porsche996Turboa.jpg (http://speed.supercars.net/boardpics/2004-7-24/2537433-Pendulumd.jpg)

[nejcdolinsek]

This is f*uckin orgazmic.............................. :shock:

[mindgam3]

looks a bit carrear GTish from the front, i love it tho

[adamwich]

looks a bit carrear GTish from the front, i love it tho

Yes, it does look a bit like the carrera GT!

[nejcdolinsek]

^^^ Actually, the Carrera GT always looked like the 360... the 430 is an evolution of the 360 --- therefore the 430 is similar to the 360, not the GT :P

[adamwich]

^^^ Actually, the Carrera GT always looked like the 360... the 430 is an evolution of the 360 --- therefore the 430 is similar to the 360, not the GT :P

:lol:

[mindgam3]

^^^ Actually, the Carrera GT always looked like the 360... the 430 is an evolution of the 360 --- therefore the 430 is similar to the 360, not the GT :P

hmmm i wouldnt say so, i don't really think the 360 reminds me of the CGT or vice versa. But the new lights and front end made me say that the 430 slightly resembles a CGT ;)

[nejcdolinsek]

^^^

Whatever... its all about personal preferences :wink:

[crasherror]

i don,t like the way it looks but it might grow on me.

[SilviaEvo]

i don,t like the way it looks but it might grow on me.

it already grew on me and i love it :D

[SPEED_DEMON82]

Well ....... those are some real big n amazing pics we have here......but would like Ferrari to give us a few pics of the car in Carbon Fibre (no paint)...like those of the CF Zonda. :D
Those would make some real mean pics ha what say guys :?:

[SilviaEvo]

Well ....... those are some real big n amazing pics we have here......but would like Ferrari to give us a few pics of the car in Carbon Fibre (no paint)...like those of the CF Zonda.
Those would make some real mean pics ha what say guys

i can never really imagine a ferrari in all CF they are supposed to be red :twisted:

[bmagni]

there are two options here....
first ferrari had to realease the pics and info cause it came out i dont know how
2nd. they did it on purpose...

i go more for the first one

[PATo355]

They are actually in the ferrari official page :D

[Max Power]

ferrari is going backwards in design, prob hired one of the Bavarian designers.....to the F430 I say 'meh'

[gottacatchup]

Too busy in the back i think, they need to simplify some of those vents to make it match the clean lines of the front.

[ae86_16v]

Too busy in the back i think, they need to simplify some of those vents to make it match the clean lines of the front.

I loved the back, especially that defuser.

[nejcdolinsek]

EXTRA hi-res (includes silver 430)

http://www.supercarfreak.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1452

(Towards the bottom of the page... I'm too lazy to post the correct links...)

Btw, does anyone know whether the 430 has 5 valves/cyl?

[noosee]

Great looking car.
I like it more than 360. The back headlamps are closer to Enzo & this duffuzer :shock: really great

[HeilSvenska]

Btw, does anyone know whether the 430 has 5 valves/cyl?


I don't know, but the Maserati 4200 had Quattrovalvole.

[nejcdolinsek]

^^
But Maserati isn't Ferrari :wink:

[Toronto]

Plus, the only aspect of drving that the Gt is better at is straight line, and really, who cares if its faster, you buy more then just straight line in these cars.


Hmm.. that's odd - the only time the GT went up against the 360 at a number of race trcaks around the USA - the 360 was left for dead.. :)

Look - "we" don't mind giving credit where it is due... as the Primadona is an ok car for what it is - but why do the Tifosi have to resort to lies and insults in a war of words.. :)

Just admit the boring nature of the 360's performance in comparison to the rest of the field.. ;)

well tha is a against the 360, the Z06 is a tunned vette, so why not put it up against the tunned 360, and i don't think many vette drivers want to go up against a 360cs on a track, the 360cs is only 0.004 slower then the new gt, so RC is the z06 as a good as a GT?

now back on topic, is this car (430) going to have carbon brakes like they show in the pics, and will there be a 6-spd manual option? i haven't seen they state the brakes or the tranny?

[mindgam3]

Plus, the only aspect of drving that the Gt is better at is straight line, and really, who cares if its faster, you buy more then just straight line in these cars.


Hmm.. that's odd - the only time the GT went up against the 360 at a number of race trcaks around the USA - the 360 was left for dead.. :)

Look - "we" don't mind giving credit where it is due... as the Primadona is an ok car for what it is - but why do the Tifosi have to resort to lies and insults in a war of words.. :)

Just admit the boring nature of the 360's performance in comparison to the rest of the field.. ;)

well tha is a against the 360, the Z06 is a tunned vette, so why not put it up against the tunned 360, and i don't think many vette drivers want to go up against a 360cs on a track, the 360cs is only 0.004 slower then the new gt, so RC is the z06 as a good as a GT?

now back on topic, is this car (430) going to have carbon brakes like they show in the pics, and will there be a 6-spd manual option? i haven't seen they state the brakes or the tranny?

Plus the new 430 is supposed to be as fast as the 360CS ;)

I'm fairly sure they'll offer a manual option too, seeing as though they expected F1 to out sell manual on the 360 70% to 30% but it was more like 50% each

[1zippo1]

I think it looks very good, as I said before but it's clearly an evolution of the 360 styling wise. There's much more difference between the 355 & the 360 then between the 360 & 430 IMO. The 430 is basically a more racy looking version of the 360, look at the bigger air vents in the front bumper and at the sides. Those remind me of the 360 Challenge (not CS). And then the end, well those venturi tunnels are racing inspired so.

[Ian_yamaue]

I think it's front bumper looks like the NGT version of 360.
Pretty

[1zippo1]

I think it's front bumper looks like the NGT version of 360.
Pretty

Shit, true, that's the one I mean. Not the Challenge of course. Sorry

[Ian_yamaue]

HEHEH... I knew it. don't worry. :mrgreen:

[RC45]

well tha is a against the 360, the Z06 is a tunned vette, so why not put it up against the tunned 360,

The CS is a tuned, stripped 360... the Z06 is just tuned... :)

The few folks that have prepped their Z06's to the same extreme level as the CS are so far ahead of the 360CS - they are a closer match to your precious GT and NGT :P

Until you actually see a T1 prepped Z06 on the track y'all really have NO idea of the potential in the plastic, pushrod car. :)

Anyway - back to your regular scheduled programming.. :lol:

I guess Denial is actually a river of tears in Italy... :lol: :P

[Vansquish]

The 360 always looked more Japanese than Italian to me, so to see the return of the sharknose on such an all-around beautiful vehicle as well as the family ties to the Enzo at the rear and inside...fantastic design job. The only thing that is a little questionable is the execution of the rear end...it's a little too pugnacious and not quite beautiful and dainty enough for my tastes.

[HeilSvenska]

The 360 always looked more Japanese than Italian to me

http://www.arabadergisi.com/cf/ferrari/360modena_retro.jpg=http://www.xbox-x-box.com/Toyota-MR2.jpg???

How does that work? It's like saying that a Vanquish looks like an American car!
I'm sorry, but i just can't see how.

By the way Enzo and the 612 are the ones that look Japanese because they were designed by Ken Okuyama...a Japanese person...and a Ken...

I do not like these new edgy and unsubtle designs...just look at BMW 7-series. I have to admit, although 430 does not look prettier than 360, it does look more interesting.

[SFDMALEX]

well tha is a against the 360, the Z06 is a tunned vette, so why not put it up against the tunned 360,

The CS is a tuned, stripped 360... the Z06 is just tuned... :)

The few folks that have prepped their Z06's to the same extreme level as the CS are so far ahead of the 360CS - they are a closer match to your precious GT and NGT :P

Until you actually see a T1 prepped Z06 on the track y'all really have NO idea of the potential in the plastic, pushrod car. :)

Anyway - back to your regular scheduled programming.. :lol:

I guess Denial is actually a river of tears in Italy... :lol: :P

haha

Its you living in denial actually, not the 360 fan boys... :P

[SilviaEvo]

360 CS better hands down now does that settle it? hahahha

[RC45]

well tha is a against the 360, the Z06 is a tunned vette, so why not put it up against the tunned 360,

The CS is a tuned, stripped 360... the Z06 is just tuned... :)

The few folks that have prepped their Z06's to the same extreme level as the CS are so far ahead of the 360CS - they are a closer match to your precious GT and NGT :P

Until you actually see a T1 prepped Z06 on the track y'all really have NO idea of the potential in the plastic, pushrod car. :)

Anyway - back to your regular scheduled programming.. :lol:

I guess Denial is actually a river of tears in Italy... :lol: :P

haha

Its you living in denial actually, not the 360 fan boys... :P

you guys are so easy to bate.. :)

Let's not argue any more.

What I will do is set my car up as a 360CS/430 destroyer.. ;)

Then post pictures and videos of it destroying 360's/360CS's/430's etc :P

That is - if I can ever find Boutique Tifosi who actually drive their cars.. ;) :lol:

[Vansquish]

The 360 always looked more Japanese than Italian to me

http://www.arabadergisi.com/cf/ferrari/360modena_retro.jpg=http://www.xbox-x-box.com/Toyota-MR2.jpg???

How does that work? It's like saying that a Vanquish looks like an American car!
I'm sorry, but i just can't see how.

By the way Enzo and the 612 are the ones that look Japanese because they were designed by Ken Okuyama...a Japanese person...and a Ken...

I do not like these new edgy and unsubtle designs...just look at BMW 7-series. I have to admit, although 430 does not look prettier than 360, it does look more interesting.

LOL...I Knew tihs was going to cause an uproar...I didn't mean to compare it to the NSX or the MR2 or anything, but the 360 has never looked like a real ferrari to me. The F40, F50, F355, 456GT, Testarossa and the 550M (to a lesser extent) are the modern day Ferraris that set a trend in design for the company which the 360 broke. It was designed to be "utilitarian" insofar as a Ferrari can be. It was designed with larger interior dimensions, greater luggage space and more foolproof performance than it's predecessors...in that regard some of the Ferrari essence was lost. The styling doesn't look like an MR2 nor would I ever suggest that it might bear any particular resemblance to a Japanese car...it just doesn't have that "Ferrari flavor" and seems more like an anaesthetized, form-following function, vehicle with a serious lack of design flair and panache that Ferraris should have. The 430 goes a long way to rectifying that. The front end harks back to the Sharknose GP cars and the rest of the car manages to subtly redo some things that made the 360 a little flabby and less taught than it could've been. The fact that the Enzo and 612 were penned (at least in part) by Mr. Okuyama has nothing to do with their Ferrari-ness. The 612 is in the same vein as the 360 to my eyes...it's actually the only truly ugly Ferrari I can remember. It has some great lines, but the proportions are all wrong and the mishmash of shapes and contours just doesn't settle nicely. The Enzo manages to be brutishly beautiful. It divides opinion as much as the 430 seems to be doing to this forum. However, it is much like the F40 in that it is a single-minded attempt at a car, and it manages to be a Ferrari at the same time even though nothing but the Taillights and the prancing horse emblem really match anything that the company has done before. The 430 carries that theme onwards and updates the 360's sheetmetal in a way that both has historical and modern-day familial ties at Ferrari.

[SFDMALEX]

well tha is a against the 360, the Z06 is a tunned vette, so why not put it up against the tunned 360,

The CS is a tuned, stripped 360... the Z06 is just tuned... :)

The few folks that have prepped their Z06's to the same extreme level as the CS are so far ahead of the 360CS - they are a closer match to your precious GT and NGT :P

Until you actually see a T1 prepped Z06 on the track y'all really have NO idea of the potential in the plastic, pushrod car. :)

Anyway - back to your regular scheduled programming.. :lol:

I guess Denial is actually a river of tears in Italy... :lol: :P

haha

Its you living in denial actually, not the 360 fan boys... :P

you guys are so easy to bate.. :)

Let's not argue any more.

What I will do is set my car up as a 360CS/430 destroyer.. ;)

Then post pictures and videos of it destroying 360's/360CS's/430's etc :P

That is - if I can ever find Boutique Tifosi who actually drive their cars.. ;) :lol:

haha!

Setup? :lol: hats what I wanted to hear :P

[RC45]

well tha is a against the 360, the Z06 is a tunned vette, so why not put it up against the tunned 360,

The CS is a tuned, stripped 360... the Z06 is just tuned... :)

The few folks that have prepped their Z06's to the same extreme level as the CS are so far ahead of the 360CS - they are a closer match to your precious GT and NGT :P

Until you actually see a T1 prepped Z06 on the track y'all really have NO idea of the potential in the plastic, pushrod car. :)

Anyway - back to your regular scheduled programming.. :lol:

I guess Denial is actually a river of tears in Italy... :lol: :P

haha

Its you living in denial actually, not the 360 fan boys... :P

you guys are so easy to bate.. :)

Let's not argue any more.

What I will do is set my car up as a 360CS/430 destroyer.. ;)

Then post pictures and videos of it destroying 360's/360CS's/430's etc :P

That is - if I can ever find Boutique Tifosi who actually drive their cars.. ;) :lol:

haha!

Setup? :lol: hats what I wanted to hear :P

Well - think about it... I have the old slow 2001 385hp version.. :P -- so it is allowed to be "setup".. ;) :lol:

[ice]

well tha is a against the 360, the Z06 is a tunned vette, so why not put it up against the tunned 360,

The CS is a tuned, stripped 360... the Z06 is just tuned... :)

The few folks that have prepped their Z06's to the same extreme level as the CS are so far ahead of the 360CS - they are a closer match to your precious GT and NGT :P

Until you actually see a T1 prepped Z06 on the track y'all really have NO idea of the potential in the plastic, pushrod car. :)

Anyway - back to your regular scheduled programming.. :lol:

I guess Denial is actually a river of tears in Italy... :lol: :P

Hardly. The Z06 and 360 occupy complately different territories in the sports market, sports car vs. exotic. And dont start saying "if i prep my car liek this and u dont touch urs...". I have a road and track article comparing the Z06 with a 360, and despite having less power, less torque and an engine much smaller, it still set a faster lap time, consistantly. The Z06 is my favourite american sports car, but its inferior suspension geometry combined with a front engine layout means itll never be as fast as a 360 given equal steps in performance. You will use the "Z06 vs. 550 marenello" argument, but thats only valid in racing becuase of the vette's huge engine size compared to the 360.

Like i said, i love the Z06, and ive had the oppurtunity to drive one, but the 360 is a much more involving, precise machine. Straight line speed may be lacking compared to the pushrods 5.7 litres, but hey, ferrari's were never about straight line speed. Give me and 99% of the populationa choice betwen ur prepped Z06, with its suspension tuned, its engine bored out with new cams and all that and a 360 CS, and i think ud find a lot of Z06's witout owners.

Oh, and denial? No magazine I know of has ever said the Z06 is even close to a match to the 360.

[RC45]

well tha is a against the 360, the Z06 is a tunned vette, so why not put it up against the tunned 360,

The CS is a tuned, stripped 360... the Z06 is just tuned... :)

The few folks that have prepped their Z06's to the same extreme level as the CS are so far ahead of the 360CS - they are a closer match to your precious GT and NGT :P

Until you actually see a T1 prepped Z06 on the track y'all really have NO idea of the potential in the plastic, pushrod car. :)

Anyway - back to your regular scheduled programming.. :lol:

I guess Denial is actually a river of tears in Italy... :lol: :P

Hardly. The Z06 and 360 occupy complately different territories in the sports market, sports car vs. exotic. And dont start saying "if i prep my car liek this and u dont touch urs...". I have a road and track article comparing the Z06 with a 360, and despite having less power, less torque and an engine much smaller, it still set a faster lap time, consistantly. The Z06 is my favourite american sports car, but its inferior suspension geometry combined with a front engine layout means itll never be as fast as a 360 given equal steps in performance. You will use the "Z06 vs. 550 marenello" argument, but thats only valid in racing becuase of the vette's huge engine size compared to the 360.

Like i said, i love the Z06, and ive had the oppurtunity to drive one, but the 360 is a much more involving, precise machine. Straight line speed may be lacking compared to the pushrods 5.7 litres, but hey, ferrari's were never about straight line speed. Give me and 99% of the populationa choice betwen ur prepped Z06, with its suspension tuned, its engine bored out with new cams and all that and a 360 CS, and i think ud find a lot of Z06's witout owners.

Oh, and denial? No magazine I know of has ever said the Z06 is even close to a match to the 360.

Here we go again. I will save everyone the horror... just search and you will find the articles and numbers AND owner anecdotes of how the Z06 has not only; lapped tracks faster, accelerated quicker, cost less - but also lasted longer and been more fun.. :)

But anyway... you appear to be the one hating at the moment.. :P

Oh and this comment alone

Give me and 99% of the populationa choice betwen ur prepped Z06, with its suspension tuned, its engine bored out with new cams and all that and a 360 CS, and i think ud find a lot of Z06's witout owners.
Indicates that you are clueless and ill informed. The 2004 Z06 in stock form, stops the same (and quicker), pulls the same G's (and higher), accelerates quicker, makes more power and weighs the same - and laps the 'Ring in the same time... and costs less.

That pretty much once again shows that the cars a performance match...

Period.

The choice is purely subjective or budgetary.

SO - please - next time before you post something - please, for fucks sake - do research and know what the fuck you are talking about.

The decimal point differences in the weight speed and performance of the 360CS and the 2004 Z06 are so small - that on the day it would most probably come down to the driver skill and track they were one.

I have been involved in this banter and friendly exchange with JW member for a long time - simply because I know they are all serious and knowledgable enthusiasts who while defending "their brand" also know and understand the facts.

But what really gets old is fuckers who just come around and spew bull...


ah forget it.. :)

Let's get back to talking about the F430... :)

[ice]

well tha is a against the 360, the Z06 is a tunned vette, so why not put it up against the tunned 360,

The CS is a tuned, stripped 360... the Z06 is just tuned... :)

The few folks that have prepped their Z06's to the same extreme level as the CS are so far ahead of the 360CS - they are a closer match to your precious GT and NGT :P

Until you actually see a T1 prepped Z06 on the track y'all really have NO idea of the potential in the plastic, pushrod car. :)

Anyway - back to your regular scheduled programming.. :lol:

I guess Denial is actually a river of tears in Italy... :lol: :P

Hardly. The Z06 and 360 occupy complately different territories in the sports market, sports car vs. exotic. And dont start saying "if i prep my car liek this and u dont touch urs...". I have a road and track article comparing the Z06 with a 360, and despite having less power, less torque and an engine much smaller, it still set a faster lap time, consistantly. The Z06 is my favourite american sports car, but its inferior suspension geometry combined with a front engine layout means itll never be as fast as a 360 given equal steps in performance. You will use the "Z06 vs. 550 marenello" argument, but thats only valid in racing becuase of the vette's huge engine size compared to the 360.

Like i said, i love the Z06, and ive had the oppurtunity to drive one, but the 360 is a much more involving, precise machine. Straight line speed may be lacking compared to the pushrods 5.7 litres, but hey, ferrari's were never about straight line speed. Give me and 99% of the populationa choice betwen ur prepped Z06, with its suspension tuned, its engine bored out with new cams and all that and a 360 CS, and i think ud find a lot of Z06's witout owners.

Oh, and denial? No magazine I know of has ever said the Z06 is even close to a match to the 360.

Here we go again. I will save everyone the horror... just search and you will find the articles and numbers AND owner anecdotes of how the Z06 has not only; lapped tracks faster, accelerated quicker, cost less - but also lasted longer and been more fun.. :)

But anyway... you appear to be the one hating at the moment.. :P

Oh and this comment alone

Give me and 99% of the populationa choice betwen ur prepped Z06, with its suspension tuned, its engine bored out with new cams and all that and a 360 CS, and i think ud find a lot of Z06's witout owners.
Indicates that you are clueless and ill informed. The 2004 Z06 in stock form, stops the same (and quicker), pulls the same G's (and higher), accelerates quicker, makes more power and weighs the same - and laps the 'Ring in the same time... and costs less.

That pretty much once again shows that the cars a performance match...

Period.

The choice is purely subjective or budgetary.

SO - please - next time before you post something - please, for fucks sake - do research and know what the fuck you are talking about.

The decimal point differences in the weight speed and performance of the 360CS and the 2004 Z06 are so small - that on the day it would most probably come down to the driver skill and track they were one.

I have been involved in this banter and friendly exchange with JW member for a long time - simply because I know they are all serious and knowledgable enthusiasts who while defending "their brand" also know and understand the facts.

But what really gets old is fuckers who just come around and spew bull...


ah forget it.. :)

Let's get back to talking about the F430... :)

Rather then speak with such finality, maybe you should instead provide some of these facts you banter on about. If you do read road and track, which being from houston u have access to, you will find a particular article taking certain cars from certain marques and putting them on track, with the same driver. In that scenario the Z06 could not beat a stock 360, let alone a CS which is in the same class on track as a Ford GT(far faster then a Z06 seeing as how the Z06 is comparable to a Viper in nearly every single performance category). So, give me some of your solid facts showing your lap times equal to a CS Modena and ill concede that yes, in fact, the Z06 is as fast as a 360.

Also, we all know that a car when thrown into individual tests, ie; 0-60, 60-0, tope speed ect,, mean nothign when the car is put out ona track. In fact, your max g-pad measurement is basically useless, seeing as how the 360's is rather unimpressive yet is also one of the best stock cars ona track period.

Oh, and just to see where you are getting this from, give me the sources that says a stock 2004 Z06 is equal to a CS in all the above areas.
And in the end, my lasp point holds true, even IF your Z06 does perform as well, it is far less desirable, which was my point about how 99% of the people out there would take the 360 first, regardless of price. If you try to debate that, then I truly feel sorry for you, because you are one of those fanboy american sports car freaks. yes, i admit i have bias towards the Ferrari, but the Ferrari's praise and desirablity at least help aid my argument.

[RC45]

And in the end, my lasp point holds true, even IF your Z06 does perform as well, it is far less desirable, which was my point about how 99% of the people out there would take the 360 first, regardless of price. If you try to debate that, then I truly feel sorry for you, because you are one of those fanboy american sports car freaks. yes, i admit i have bias towards the Ferrari, but the Ferrari's praise and desirablity at least help aid my argument.

I really didn't want to go here - but I hate stupid mother-fuckers with a passion.

99% of people could not afford the 360 in any variant - so to make such a stupid ass comment already proves you are a) either a rich kid who has unfetterd access to and will never have to work for money - or b) a stupid mother fucker...

Given a choice between a free cheap toy and a free expensive toy - is no test or measure of the toy's real value - UNLESS THE RECIPIENT COULD AFFORD EITHER!!!

So that test is a moot fucking point. Because naturally the poor fucker given a choice of a free $50,000 car vs a free $250,000 car - of COURSE will choose the car that costs more than their entire families income.

Back to reality - there is a reason Jay Leno has a Z06 in his stable. And is not because it is a cheap car. It is because it is one of the best cars on the planet. Not THE best - but right up there with the Viper GTS, 911TT, TVR's, Lambo Gallardo and 360 (and 360CS) etc.

Now that we have covered this ground - again... (since the SUBJECTIVE CHOICE of an expensive car has NO BEARING on a performance comparison) here are some of the numbers that do in fact show that the 360 and 360CS are not the GREATEST GOD DAMNED CARS SINCE THE MODEL T!!! :P

(Courtesy of Guibo in another topic)

And Automobile Magazine's 385-hp longterm Z06 did in fact beat their 360 Modena:
http://img48.exs.cx/img48/9681/Automobile.jpg

Not too terribly surprising, considering the lap times that Sport Auto got for them at the Hockenheim club circuit:
Z06 (385-hp) 1:14.9
360 Modena 1:15.1

The CS moves things on a bit, but so does the Commemorative Edition Z06 (for '04, I understand all Z06's get this same suspension):
http://img19.exs.cx/img19/7494/Gingerman.th.jpg (http://img19.exs.cx/img19/7494/Gingerman.jpg)

(Courtesy of me in another topic)
2004 Ferrari CS test results
http://www.supercarx.com/articles/specifications/stradale.htm

2004 Z06 test results
http://www.supercarx.com/articles/specifications/04corvettezo6.htm

2004 C6 test results
http://www.supercarx.com/articles/specifications/gallardo.htm

2004 Gallardo Test results
http://www.supercarx.com/articles/specifications/gallardo.htm

A typical 360CS test result available online:

Performance
0-60 mph: 4.0 sec
0-100 mph: 9.7 sec
Quarter Mile: 12.2 sec @ 117 mph
Skidpad: .95g
Top Speed: 186 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 107 ft
Slalom Speed: 72.7 mph

A typical 2004 Z06 test result available online:

Performance
0-60 mph: 4.0 sec
0-100 mph: 9.5 sec
Quarter Mile: 12.5 sec @ 115 mph
Skidpad: .99g
Top Speed: 171 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 104 ft
Slalom Speed: 70.3 mph

A typical Gallardo test result available online

Performance
0-60 mph: 4.0 sec
0-100 mph: 10.2 sec
Quarter Mile: 12.4 sec @ 112 mph
Skidpad: .95g
Top Speed: 192 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 110 ft
Slalom Speed: 66.3 mph]

And of course we cannot forget the 7:56 posted by the Z06 around the North Loop. That alone should be enough to help establish that the plastic pushrod leaf spring go-kart is the 360 series equal. Period ;)

In short (as we have hijacked this F430 thread enough as it is) the cars in question are almost identical specification - and ability - and are only seperated by 100,000's of dollars of price - so of course people who "dream" of Ferraris are insulted and upset that a cheap car can be in the same league - because they "dream" of the exclusive and snob-appeal.

But just get over it already.

Of course if money is no object - or a gift - you would choose the "exclusive expensive" toy - but that is never explained is it - no. :roll:

It is quite amazing how people come around and actually think that the other person is making unverifiable comments based on opinion alone... why is it so hard to believe that maybe the "other side" has facts to AND eye-witness account experience to back up their point of view?

NOW - back to F430 pictures.. :P

[sentra_dude]

Out of that huge post RC, one thing made me laugh me ass off:

on the same day, with the same driver-who asked not to be named (Mark Gilles).

Did anyone else find that extremely funny or is that just my off balance sense of humor? :D :P

I see you are schooling the children again...;) :P

[X-ale]

That was quite entertaining. Isn't option a) just a variant of option b) ?

[ice]

RC45, I respect the fact that you responded with fact, as most peopel dont, but since i also have a magazine claiming that a stock 360 is faster around a track, while also feeling far more balanced and composed, id say your point of them being equal in performance is valid, which i never doubted. What I did say from the original post was in fact that the 360 does do things better, however subjectively. ]
Do not get confused though, Im no snob that believes that it is an insult that a Z06 is comparable to a 360, in fact I believe such comparisons are important to establish why a 360 is worth that much more money. And by no way do I mean it as an insult, but if you have driven a 360(which is enitrely possible) youd liekly agree. yes I come froma affluent family which affords me certain luxuries( I regularly drive my fathers BiBi 512),but that cannot be used against me in any way. I dont look at Ferrari;s as a status symbol at all, rather an expression of passion and a tool of speed. I hate those ferrari owners that parade around their cars up and down downtown streets like prize horses, cause Enzo would not approve. in fact, I have driven my dads car around Mosport track more then once. Thats why i take it as a great offence why you must turn your entire post as a rude insult, considreing you are a moderator, and thus representing JW, and with such an immature tone. Dont talk down to me as if im a child, becuase as Ive stated, ive had the luxury to drive many impressive machines(not greatest of all a 360), and therfore I dont neccesarily need you to tell me how I should feel, or the reasons I would like a certain car.

Can i specualte how a dream owner would feel in this comparison? No. I can only tell you how I feel. Having driven both, Id not buy the Ferrari for its "expresso crowd appeal", instead Id buy it for its steering, its sound, its complately unique way of delivering speed. As my first post said, they are two different ways of expressing a super car, ones a sports car and ones an exotic. I concede the point u made about performance diffrerence, you were right. But no doubt exists in my mind that most would take the 360 anyways. And not just because of the exclusivity or image, but because of so much more. Tiff needles favourite car is a 360, EVO consistanly uses the 360 as a benchmark, CAR chose it over the 911 GT3 RS, and the list goes on. I know youre proud of such a great machine as the Z06, but the price difference is established in more ways then just in raw numbers. The 360 offers to its drivers feelings that no car can do as well. Better, worse, however you explain it. In the end it makes a machine that can somehow justify its price. Take away the bagdes from both a Z06 and 360 and do a "pespi test" and youll only confirm my point. Theres more to a Ferrari then its label, and theres more to a car then its numbers. We need only look at cars like the GT40 and 250 GTO to see this.

So yea, you are right, the Z06 can be as fast as a 360 if not faster. Will any 360 owner above the label issue trade it in now for the faster Vette?

[RC45]

Out of that huge post RC, one thing made me laugh me ass off:

on the same day, with the same driver-who asked not to be named (Mark Gilles).

Did anyone else find that extremely funny or is that just my off balance sense of humor? :D :P

I see you are schooling the children again...;) :P

:lol: - Yeah, I am not sure what part of 1:33.9 - Z06 vs 1:34.19 - CS vs 1:34.15 - GT3 around Ginger Man means they are all the same some folks don't understand.

And as such - I am sure Mr Gilles wanted to keep his name out of it so that he wouldn't be hunted down by the Tifosi for exposing the Emporer as having noclothes... :) But his editor obviously had other ideas... :lol: :D :P

[RC45]

RC45, I respect the fact that you responded with fact, as most peopel dont, but since i also have a magazine claiming that a stock 360 is faster around a track, while also feeling far more balanced and composed, id say your point of them being equal in performance is valid, which i never doubted.

The poijt is actually that YOU assumed that anything anit-360 was wrong - and you obviously have never retained any data showing otherwise - else you would not have responded with a"prove it" statement.


What I did say from the original post was in fact that the 360 does do things better, however subjectively. ]
Do not get confused though, Im no snob that believes that it is an insult that a Z06 is comparable to a 360, in fact I believe such comparisons are important to establish why a 360 is worth that much more money.

I beg to differ. The stock 360 is proof that the car is overpriced based on how mediocre it in fact does everything. And this includes fit, finish and reliability. Other than the exotic materials - 360's are not perfect works of art - they ar just really expensive exclusive road cars. ;)


And by no way do I mean it as an insult, but if you have driven a 360(which is enitrely possible) youd liekly agree.

The short time I spent in a rented 360 were very unimpressive - if not for the sound and "Ferrari" appeal it was not that aweinspiring - considering how slow it felt.. :P


yes I come froma affluent family which affords me certain luxuries( I regularly drive my fathers BiBi 512),but that cannot be used against me in any way.

Well - looks like I called this one to a T... :P


I dont look at Ferrari;s as a status symbol at all, rather an expression of passion and a tool of speed. I hate those ferrari owners that parade around their cars up and down downtown streets like prize horses, cause Enzo would not approve. in fact, I have driven my dads car around Mosport track more then once.

Good for you - get back to us on how your F430 graduation gift worls out.. :P


Thats why i take it as a great offence why you must turn your entire post as a rude insult,

It is a lot easier for the whole post to offend - than just making a few poitned insulting remoarks.


considreing you are a moderator, and thus representing JW, and with such an immature tone.

Mod - sure... it's a really high paying job... representing JW? I don't think so... If being correct is immature - I am but an infant.


Dont talk down to me as if im a child, becuase as Ive stated, ive had the luxury to drive many impressive machines(not greatest of all a 360),

Wrong answer - Wealth and status and access to "daddy and uncle bobs toys" do not automatically demand respect or reverence.


and therfore I dont neccesarily need you to tell me how I should feel, or the reasons I would like a certain car.

Again - you may have been able to "snob" you way through school and into a priviledged adult life (just barely) but that does not make any of your factless opinions law by any menas. :)


Can i specualte how a dream owner would feel in this comparison? No. I can only tell you how I feel. Having driven both, Id not buy the Ferrari for its "expresso crowd appeal", instead Id buy it for its steering, its sound, its complately unique way of delivering speed.

Considering the price is obviously not of concern to you - you can choose any reason you want... again hardly earth shatteringly conclusive.


As my first post said, they are two different ways of expressing a super car, ones a sports car and ones an exotic. I concede the point u made about performance diffrerence, you were right. But no doubt exists in my mind that most would take the 360 anyways.

You state the obvious - so obviously.. :roll:


And not just because of the exclusivity or image, but because of so much more.

Bull shit - an expensive free gift is far easier to give away than the cheap free gift.


Tiff needles favourite car is a 360, EVO consistanly uses the 360 as a benchmark, CAR chose it over the 911 GT3 RS, and the list goes on.

Again - price is not of a concern when price is not of a concern. The choices they are making are extremely subjective and with decimal points on the objective data.


I know youre proud of such a great machine as the Z06, but the price difference is established in more ways then just in raw numbers.

No need to condescend to the poor-working guy with the Chevy.

I have no need for "pride" in the car - I am not defined by what I own or drive. That car is my fun driving car. That I use everyday. It sleeps outside, is unwashed and has food wrappers on the passenger floorboards.. :)

The price difference is established by the simplest of facts - for the fraction of the price - my daily driver runs and guns with other folks weekend warriors.

It was either this or a Civic.. :P


The 360 offers to its drivers feelings that no car can do as well. Better, worse, however you explain it. In the end it makes a machine that can somehow justify its price.

Only if you have the disposable income... :)


Take away the bagdes from both a Z06 and 360 and do a "pespi test" and youll only confirm my point. Theres more to a Ferrari then its label, and theres more to a car then its numbers.

Actually - according to many, many testers the cars simply take completely different paths to achieve the same goal - uncompromised performance and the quickest way around a race track.

So - if anything - it proves that the badge simply adds to the subjectivity :)


We need only look at cars like the GT40 and 250 GTO to see this.

NO - these cars are defined by their racing heritage - period.


So yea, you are right, the Z06 can be as fast as a 360 if not faster. Will any 360 owner above the label issue trade it in now for the faster Vette?
No - because of the snob value and exclusivity.

If the 360 and Z06 were equal price, equal production numbers - had no heritage and were independant and brand new to the market place - the buyer would still choose subjectively.

That is how close they are.

Unless the buyer wanted practicality... ;) Then the choice is obvious - only one car has trunk space, fuel efficiency and creature comforts.. :P

Sorry to dissapoint you though - in a Pepsi test - the choice is still subjective... :)

BTW - anyone have any new F430 pics? ;)

[ice]

RC45, I respect the fact that you responded with fact, as most peopel dont, but since i also have a magazine claiming that a stock 360 is faster around a track, while also feeling far more balanced and composed, id say your point of them being equal in performance is valid, which i never doubted.

The poijt is actually that YOU assumed that anything anit-360 was wrong - and you obviously have never retained any data showing otherwise - else you would not have responded with a"prove it" statement.


What I did say from the original post was in fact that the 360 does do things better, however subjectively. ]
Do not get confused though, Im no snob that believes that it is an insult that a Z06 is comparable to a 360, in fact I believe such comparisons are important to establish why a 360 is worth that much more money.

I beg to differ. The stock 360 is proof that the car is overpriced based on how mediocre it in fact does everything. And this includes fit, finish and reliability. Other than the exotic materials - 360's are not perfect works of art - they ar just really expensive exclusive road cars. ;)


And by no way do I mean it as an insult, but if you have driven a 360(which is enitrely possible) youd liekly agree.

The short time I spent in a rented 360 were very unimpressive - if not for the sound and "Ferrari" appeal it was not that aweinspiring - considering how slow it felt.. :P


yes I come froma affluent family which affords me certain luxuries( I regularly drive my fathers BiBi 512),but that cannot be used against me in any way.

Well - looks like I called this one to a T... :P


I dont look at Ferrari;s as a status symbol at all, rather an expression of passion and a tool of speed. I hate those ferrari owners that parade around their cars up and down downtown streets like prize horses, cause Enzo would not approve. in fact, I have driven my dads car around Mosport track more then once.

Good for you - get back to us on how your F430 graduation gift worls out.. :P


Thats why i take it as a great offence why you must turn your entire post as a rude insult,

It is a lot easier for the whole post to offend - than just making a few poitned insulting remoarks.


considreing you are a moderator, and thus representing JW, and with such an immature tone.

Mod - sure... it's a really high paying job... representing JW? I don't think so... If being correct is immature - I am but an infant.


Dont talk down to me as if im a child, becuase as Ive stated, ive had the luxury to drive many impressive machines(not greatest of all a 360),

Wrong answer - Wealth and status and access to "daddy and uncle bobs toys" do not automatically demand respect or reverence.


and therfore I dont neccesarily need you to tell me how I should feel, or the reasons I would like a certain car.

Again - you may have been able to "snob" you way through school and into a priviledged adult life (just barely) but that does not make any of your factless opinions law by any menas. :)


Can i specualte how a dream owner would feel in this comparison? No. I can only tell you how I feel. Having driven both, Id not buy the Ferrari for its "expresso crowd appeal", instead Id buy it for its steering, its sound, its complately unique way of delivering speed.

Considering the price is obviously not of concern to you - you can choose any reason you want... again hardly earth shatteringly conclusive.


As my first post said, they are two different ways of expressing a super car, ones a sports car and ones an exotic. I concede the point u made about performance diffrerence, you were right. But no doubt exists in my mind that most would take the 360 anyways.

You state the obvious - so obviously.. :roll:


And not just because of the exclusivity or image, but because of so much more.

Bull shit - an expensive free gift is far easier to give away than the cheap free gift.


Tiff needles favourite car is a 360, EVO consistanly uses the 360 as a benchmark, CAR chose it over the 911 GT3 RS, and the list goes on.

Again - price is not of a concern when price is not of a concern. The choices they are making are extremely subjective and with decimal points on the objective data.


I know youre proud of such a great machine as the Z06, but the price difference is established in more ways then just in raw numbers.

No need to condescend to the poor-working guy with the Chevy.

I have no need for "pride" in the car - I am not defined by what I own or drive. That car is my fun driving car. That I use everyday. It sleeps outside, is unwashed and has food wrappers on the passenger floorboards.. :)

The price difference is established by the simplest of facts - for the fraction of the price - my daily driver runs and guns with other folks weekend warriors.

It was either this or a Civic.. :P


The 360 offers to its drivers feelings that no car can do as well. Better, worse, however you explain it. In the end it makes a machine that can somehow justify its price.

Only if you have the disposable income... :)


Take away the bagdes from both a Z06 and 360 and do a "pespi test" and youll only confirm my point. Theres more to a Ferrari then its label, and theres more to a car then its numbers.

Actually - according to many, many testers the cars simply take completely different paths to achieve the same goal - uncompromised performance and the quickest way around a race track.

So - if anything - it proves that the badge simply adds to the subjectivity :)


We need only look at cars like the GT40 and 250 GTO to see this.

NO - these cars are defined by their racing heritage - period.


So yea, you are right, the Z06 can be as fast as a 360 if not faster. Will any 360 owner above the label issue trade it in now for the faster Vette?
No - because of the snob value and exclusivity.

If the 360 and Z06 were equal price, equal production numbers - had no heritage and were independant and brand new to the market place - the buyer would still choose subjectively.

That is how close they are.

Unless the buyer wanted practicality... ;) Then the choice is obvious - only one car has trunk space, fuel efficiency and creature comforts.. :P

Sorry to dissapoint you though - in a Pepsi test - the choice is still subjective... :)

BTW - anyone have any new F430 pics? ;)

Obviously Im not gonna change your opinion just as you wont mine. You are still far too baised to even concede the fact that the ferrari is unique and at the least a great car. IM really not sure how you could possibly be so impressed by a Z06 and not by a 360, but the fact you wont concede a single positive point to the 360 shows just how weak your stance on the argument is.

And continue with your snob remarks. My father was born in post war europe and built his business from scratch in 3 different countries, and I earn what i have and so does he. And seeing as how im in the top 3% of my class, I think that i do what I can to deserve my privelegdes. Sure, some may desreve it to, but welcome to capitalism and the unfairness of life. Im lucky, I know it. I do not demand respect or reverence from you at all, I only share teh experiences as a way to justify my opinions on certain cars, meaning my experience driving them.

So we have a moot point. You seem to not be able to grasp the fact that peopel desire a 360 beyond its bagde, and I cannot agree to that. I think that in that point alone, based on your last post, shows just how biased and unwilling to bend you are. Oh and the GT40/250 GTO are based much more then their racing heritage. Anyone that drives either of them, or the many other past racing cars, finds soemthign about them. There great not for what they did, but for what they are, meaning its what they are that made them memorable, not what they did. Ferrari didnt appear great, they became great. the 360 had the highest expectations after the 355, and only raised the supercar bar even further. but you must be right, its the bagde that does that...

So again, moot point, discussion over.

[RC45]

Obviously Im not gonna change your opinion just as you wont mine.

Seems you just figured out what opinion means.. :roll:



You are still far too baised to even concede the fact that the ferrari is unique and at the least a great car. IM really not sure how you could possibly be so impressed by a Z06 and not by a 360, but the fact you wont concede a single positive point to the 360 shows just how weak your stance on the argument is.

You are so far biased towards Ferrari that you won't accept that the 360 and Z06 are equals.


And continue with your snob remarks. My father was born in post war europe and built his business from scratch in 3 different countries, and I earn what i have and so does he. And seeing as how im in the top 3% of my class, I think that i do what I can to deserve my privelegdes. Sure, some may desreve it to, but welcome to capitalism and the unfairness of life. Im lucky, I know it. I do not demand respect or reverence from you at all, I only share teh experiences as a way to justify my opinions on certain cars, meaning my experience driving them.

Sure - if you say so...


So we have a moot point. You seem to not be able to grasp the fact that peopel desire a 360 beyond its bagde, and I cannot agree to that.

I have a little story for you. A Z06 driving acquaintance here in Houston has a neighbour that scraped every penny he could and after a long lusting - bought a 360 Modena. Sure the car looked good sitting in his driveway - however, there in regular suburbia you had a gent whose car cost the same as his house - and apart from a few weekend drives, he had a car that may appear to represent a pinnacle of automotive performance, it is however rather less usable than most believe.

This places the car in an exclusivity bracket that I feel is what most punters aspire towards - rtaher than the car - unless they are affluent.

The first years service cost the same as his property tax bill - the car proved a lot less reliable and inclined to be rather sensitive to enthusiastic use (in other words, it broke down fairly often and is proving to be a lot less fun to own than at first anticipated).

All he has to really go on when you stand around admiring his car is its heritage, badge, price and appearance.

Maybe in YOUR circles of wealth and opulence, the 360 as a 3rd, 4th or 5th car - the 360 has value on pure performance merit - but in the real world it is really just an expensive toy - that no longer has exclusive rights to performance.

25 years ago, it took a Ferrari or Lambo to have supercar performance - and then reliability was not expected.

Today ANYONE can have supercar performance - and reliability is delivered.

If you can't see this you are blinded by your own bias.. :)


I think that in that point alone, based on your last post, shows just how biased and unwilling to bend you are. Oh and the GT40/250 GTO are based much more then their racing heritage.

No they are not - They were conceived and delivered as race cars - and that is their legacy.


Anyone that drives either of them, or the many other past racing cars, finds soemthign about them. There great not for what they did, but for what they are, meaning its what they are that made them memorable, not what they did.

:roll:


Ferrari didnt appear great, they became great.

Who knows why you even take the time to point out the obvious...


the 360 had the highest expectations after the 355, and only raised the supercar bar even further.

Unfortunately - by the time the 360 rolled around - there were other players on the plateau - the 355 was a leader to it's peers - the 360 is simply an equal.


but you must be right, its the bagde that does that...

So again, moot point, discussion over.
How odd that you expected to have the last word... you must be accustomed to dismissing folks were you come from.. ;)

[T-Bird]

where the hell do you live ice?
Have you ever seen a Z06 in person?
Have you ever seen a Z06 in action?
Have you ever driven a Z06?
I would be willing to bet the answer is no to those questions, so you have no backing.
You are saying the man is biased because he can't find anything actually worth the price of a 360 other than the status symbol (which he doesn't like), but he owns a Z06 for a reason, and he has driven a 360. I have had the pleasure to ride along in a 360 and drove a Z06 a few times and have to say the Z06 seemed to be a better car (also easier to get into). If I had the money for a standard 360 I would go buy a Corvette without thinking twice and I would still have money to mod the piss out of it and buy an S4 or A6 for the winter, think about it. The good thing about living in the sates is that we have these kind of choices, in Europe the Z06 is extremely expensive(still cheaper than a 360 probably) and ungodly rare. Here if you live in a fairly wealthy area (as in not the middle of Missouri or Iowa) you can go to a certain part of the city and find a Ferrari dealership and down the road a Chevy Dealer and you can find out for yourself which is better for you and sadly many people go for the status symbol and sadly if I saw say a cheaper than a 360 LPE Z06(ironically) and a 360 next to eachother on the road I would say "Fuck me a Lingenfelter"(I'm a little obsessed with them) "oh yeah look at the ferrari" Z06's stick out pretty damn well even from a standard Vette, sadly I see 360's atleast every other day and they don't impress me that much but I will give them a glance but if I see Z06's I can't help but look at them, the Rumble of that American V8 (oh yeah I forgot primitive, push rod, large displacement, etc, etc, etc...)

[mindgam3]

ice: I wouldnt bother arguing with RC45, he doesen't take other peoples opinions on board ;)

as for the new C6 Clarkson has just reviewed this weekend, he likes it, he said he'd have one if his wife would let him. He also says it is not composed under braking and doesen't have much feel in the corners. He also says the gear change is awful and very clunky, the interior and bodywork do feel cheap and plasticky and says its has very decent straigt line speed.

Here is a fairly unbiased view which points out the C6's strengths and weaknesses. Maybe you, RC45 should realise that the vette does have some weaknesses and its not the perfect car you think it is.

And just for the record, I have said the vette is not a bad car and i've never said any of its rivals (including the 360) are perfect but in my opinion merely better options.

Plus lets not forget the 360 is over 5 years old. Lets forget this arguement until the 430 comes out and compare the C6 Z06 with that.

[RC45]

ice: I wouldnt bother arguing with RC45, he doesen't take other peoples opinions on board ;)

Pure opinion... :P


as for the new C6 Clarkson has just reviewed this weekend, he likes it, he said he'd have one if his wife would let him. He also says it is not composed under braking and doesen't have much feel in the corners. He also says the gear change is awful and very clunky, the interior and bodywork do feel cheap and plasticky and says its has very decent straigt line speed.

Big mother trucking deal... :P This is the hairdressers version.. not the "sport edition" :P -- and the over-gtown gorilla with the Kevin Keagen mop is rather stating the obvious anyway... :)


Here is a fairly unbiased view which points out the C6's strengths and weaknesses. Maybe you, RC45 should realise that the vette does have some weaknesses and its not the perfect car you think it is.

Apparently you have no real idea of what my over all opinion of the Corvette it.

I never said it was perfect - in fact I have leveled truck loads of criticism at it - but almost all of it has been at the fit, finish and interior as well as the wooden spoon shifter and less than ideal seats - the rather bad customer service GM has and the habit of GM dealers to screw customer over.

I had to fight with GM for a year to get them to adress the oil burning issues with my engine - and finally got a new engine out ogf them.

In short - the Z06 has a mediocre paint finish, ok leather seats, un-impressive interior, poor stock gear shifter and is nosiy, crass and brash and oozes GM "quality".

But - as a driver, not a poser - the car kicks ass... period.. :) I don't look at the interior fit and finish or the outside paint when driving and enjoying the car - and a $100 short shifter cured any girly-man type shift response.

However - from a performance and handling perspective - the Z06 is excellent - and fails to solicit amatuer comments such as Clarksons "not composed under braking and doesen't have much feel in the corners" - he is talking about the HAIRDRESSERS VERSION OF THE CAR!!! Not the "performance version" - this is the point all you bench-racers fail to comprehend :)

The current C6 has narrow run-flat tyres and a cushy comfort suspension.

Please - find the road tests and drivers comments that point out that the C5 Z06 has bad braking behaviour and bad corner feel and feedback...

Where are they? Let's see these reports?


And just for the record, I have said the vette is not a bad car and i've never said any of its rivals (including the 360) are perfect but in my opinion merely better options.

Your opinion - I say they are equals.. :)


Plus lets not forget the 360 is over 5 years old.

As is the Z06 almot 5 years old .. it first appeared in July 2000 as a 2001 model - your point? ;)


Lets forget this arguement until the 430 comes out and compare the C6 Z06 with that.
Why bother ? All the "people with money" would have already dismissed the "cheap crap car".. :P

Now - anyone have decent pictures of the F430 showing how usable and practical the car can be? ;)

[SFDMALEX]

Ahhhhh chirst.......Im not even going to bother to read this.........this is just turning hillarious..........Now who will be the more mature one and forget about?

Say it once, say it twice, say it thrice, say it 4 times and thats just being desperate.



Why dont we all ditch this argument? We settle that fact that the 360 is better then the Z06 and lets wait for the C6 Vs. 430 :wink:

[ice]

See, your last point sums it all up. You just cannot accept the 360 as a great machine beyond its badge. I accepted NUMEROUS times in my previuos post that the Z06 IS a performce equal to the 360. But again, as any person on theis board will tell you, there is more to a car then its striaght out of the box power and speed. And im not refereing to just the bagde, but also the way the car del,ivers its speed. Just as a 911 turbo is considered too mucha "tool" to be an ultimate drivers car, the 360 is an extension of more then just your feet and hands, it links with your soul. I truly feel sorry that you could not connect in your experience witht the 360. I myself fell in love.

Also, pllleeeeaaase dont bring in practicality into he argument, i know quite a few 360 owners that when put enough km's on their car have not had any problems, not one problem.
You will not concede any points while I have to u only becuase of your limited expereince. I still cant beleiev someone that drives a car like the Z06 cannot apprecite theres more to going fast then just what the speedometer says. I drove the Z06 yes, i even got to powerslide the tail around. But its steering is lazy compared to the 360, its engine sounds boring, its power deliverly too linear to be truly exciting, and its looks, well thats even too subjective. In the end it doesnt make the Z06 not a great car, it just gives reasons why so many find the 360 such a great car. It offers somethign unique that no car provides. if your looking for the ultimate numbers ina daily driver, dont buy a Z06, but an EVO or an STi, which are easily made faster thena Z06 with a fraction of the cost. You will arhue that the Z06 is better, or offers somethign different, or handles better or whatever, but in the end you are only proving my point. That huge escalation in price between a Z06 and 360 is justified not in material features like better quantitaive braking, but in qualitative expreicnes. YOur 360 experience seemed only to harden your resolve aginast it, and in doing that you are the SINGLE person I have EVER spoken or heard of that left a 360 unimpresssed.
Oh, and why did I point out Ferrari became great? To point out that legends arent built on bagdes, but that the bagde has within it substance. Is it so hard to believe peopel want a Ferrari more the just becuase of its badge? It must be for you.

Oh, and the 355 was enever the fastest car in its class, ever. tghe 911 turbo was faster, a viper was faster and many other cars were too. But that didnt stop it from being hailed consistantly by any automotive source as the best of its time. The 360 took it even further. Read any automotive comparison, the fastest car rarely wins. Its the car that excecutes things the best that wins. THATS what makes the 360 worth its price tag, and makes it that much more desirable then a Z06.

[mindgam3]

RC45, thats the first i've ever heard u admit that the vette has some faults. If i i've missed them elsewhere i apologise.

I'll wait for the C6 Z06 before i make anymore points. But am i right in saying the Z06 will have the same gearbox, interior, bodywork and virtually same suspension as the regular version?

Either way lets wait till the Z06 and 430 actually come out ;)

[RC45]

RC45, thats the first i've ever heard u admit that the vette has some faults. If i i've missed them elsewhere i apologise.

I hate GM with a passion - everything they touch turns to shit. They treat their customers with contempt and will rather wait for a threat of lawsuite before begrudgingly adressing an issue.

The reason I have a Z06 is because of what it is - it is just a pity that GM builds it.. :P

I mean lets face it - GM sucks and has no heritage - but the Corvette itself is the sinlge longest running sports car model - and has never changed it's focus. Most of the time they got it wrong, and the car had it's following because of nastalgia and character.

Then the C5 Z06 changed all that.. :) No one ever said that GM was transformed by it or even deserves the support the fans give the car - if you think the Tifosi are a passionate bunch - just imagine the kind of support a single model can garner over 50 years.. :)


I'll wait for the C6 Z06 before i make anymore points. But am i right in saying the Z06 will have the same gearbox, interior, bodywork and virtually same suspension as the regular version?

No - this is the mistake people make.

Between the C5 and C5 Z06 the changes are many - unless you are also conceding that the 360 and 360CS are basically the same car.. ;)


Either way lets wait till the Z06 and 430 actually come out ;)

[RC45]

See, your last point sums it all up. You just cannot accept the 360 as a great machine beyond its badge.

On it's merit the 360 is a great machine - however, when compared to it's peers - it is mediocre :)

Just as you brag about being in the top 3% of your class... well that really means you are only better than the other 97% - but at best mediocre against the 3% who are your peers.. :P


I accepted NUMEROUS times in my previuos post that the Z06 IS a performce equal to the 360.

Well - you counldn't deny this because of the facts - although you and every other Tifosi starts out assuming anything non-Ferrari sucks. ;)


But again, as any person on theis board will tell you, there is more to a car then its striaght out of the box power and speed.

And somehow you just assume that I am some hick red-knecj yank that only knows pickup trucks, beer and fat chicks.. and don't know this -- huh?

I have been an auto enthusist since before you were born - attended Grand Prix' and Rally events - attended track days and open pit tours to see all sorts of exotics.. rode shotgun in an F40 in the late 1980's - in short I have no doubt that I am a more rounded, experienced and open minded auto-enthusiast than you could ever hope to be.. :P ;)


And im not refereing to just the bagde, but also the way the car del,ivers its speed.
Yawn.. :roll: - yet more lecturing.. ;)


Just as a 911 turbo is considered too mucha "tool" to be an ultimate drivers car
WTF? :lol: - now you are hating on the 911.. :lol:


, the 360 is an extension of more then just your feet and hands, it links with your soul.

:lol: - OMFG - just what have you been smoking? This is the ultimate expression of Ferrari elitism - you don't think THAT very emotion can be conveyed by a 911 or an NSX or a TVR or Vette or a Lambo? :lol: :P


I truly feel sorry that you could not connect in your experience witht the 360. I myself fell in love.

Again - opinion.. ;) -- BTW - I love the 355 - but the 360 is like a super model turned porn-star... after she gets the boob job and appears in few movies - she is more of a turn off.. :P


Also, pllleeeeaaase dont bring in practicality into he argument,

Well of course you don't want to hear practicality - thats what they make S600 Benzes for - right? :lol: :P


i know quite a few 360 owners that when put enough km's on their car have not had any problems, not one problem.

Yeah - sure ;)


You will not concede any points while I have to u only becuase of your limited expereince.

Quite an assumption.. :P


I still cant beleiev someone that drives a car like the Z06 cannot apprecite theres more to going fast then just what the speedometer says.

Last I heard - the winner in a race was the one who came in first - not the one who came in second with more style.. :P ;)


I drove the Z06 yes, i even got to powerslide the tail around. But its steering is lazy compared to the 360

Didn't help it turn in quicker times in a number of comparisons.. ;)


, its engine sounds boring,

Subjective


its power deliverly too linear to be truly exciting,

The second dumbest thing ever posted on the Internet.. :P


and its looks, well thats even too subjective.

You said it.. ;)


In the end it doesnt make the Z06 not a great car, it just gives reasons why so many find the 360 such a great car.

In other words - they are equals.. :) - except one appeals more to snobs thatn others ;)


It offers somethign unique that no car provides. if your looking for the ultimate numbers ina daily driver, dont buy a Z06, but an EVO or an STi, which are easily made faster thena Z06 with a fraction of the cost.

I thought you said no comments on modded cars allowed?

Last time I looked a heads/cam Z06 will put 10 bus lenghts on a EVO or an STi (which by the way - at $30,000 + mods puts the price right at the used Z06 price.. ;))


You will arhue that the Z06 is better, or offers somethign different, or handles better or whatever, but in the end you are only proving my point. That huge escalation in price between a Z06 and 360 is justified not in material features like better quantitaive braking, but in qualitative expreicnes.

This is the dumbest thing ever posted on the INternet... EVER... ;) You just justified a price on a fabricated perception.. ;)


YOur 360 experience seemed only to harden your resolve aginast it, and in doing that you are the SINGLE person I have EVER spoken or heard of that left a 360 unimpresssed.

The 360 is unimpressive in every aspect... except for the "But it's a Ferrari - and if you have to ask you won't understand" department - which I understand perfectly.. ;)


Oh, and why did I point out Ferrari became great? To point out that legends arent built on bagdes, but that the bagde has within it substance.

You ever thought of going into politics.. :P


Is it so hard to believe peopel want a Ferrari more the just becuase of its badge? It must be for you.

Actuallu - people want it BECAUSE it is a Ferrari -- ;)


Oh, and the 355 was enever the fastest car in its class, ever. tghe 911 turbo was faster, a viper was faster and many other cars were too. But that didnt stop it from being hailed consistantly by any automotive source as the best of its time.

Exactly - and the 355 appealed to my senses and sensabilities and offers a little bit more than its contemporaries.. :P


The 360 took it even further. Read any automotive comparison, the fastest car rarely wins. Its the car that excecutes things the best that wins.

The 360 is mediocre - and you just can't stand that someone doesn't like your status symbol.. :P


THATS what makes the 360 worth its price tag, and makes it that much more desirable then a Z06.

So in summation - we see that because the 360 cannot carry it's own weight in any performance catagories - it has to fall back on price, heritage and exclusivity.. :P -- in other words -- it, the Ferrari 360 Modena (and derivatives) expensive boutique toys that without substantive qualities rely on subjective snob appeal to win the favours of the unwashed masses.. :P

That's what I said in my opening statement.. :P ;)

[ice]

So in other words, you ignore absolutely every aspect despite what can be explained by a number, and then attribute the rest to "snob appeal", you remind of the consiracy theorists that find somehow somethign behind what doesnt go their way. The 360 is the benchmark of the indussrty, and almost every sports car comparison made thus far uses it as such, whether its a euro mag, an american mag, an australian mag or whatever. So make it your lifes work to try educate the journalists that so support the 360. I mean, youve rented a 360, and you own a Z06, you have to be the highest authority.

In the end you have to be right. The 360 is mediocre, unreliable, slow, unpractical and god only knows that everybody in their right mind should choose a Z06. God himself must drive one. And the 360 is ONLY liked cause its a Ferrari, there is no other reason. Hell, if the lap time may sometimes be faster, then the Z06 must be the better car, forget about how it feels.

Oh, and out of curisoisty, what does the 430 need to do to be as a standout as the 355. What attributes, or trophies or whatever u want to call it above and beyond what the 360 has garnered, does this 430 need to be not mediocre, just so we know what to expect form you for the next generation of 360/Vette debate.

Oh, and tell your last statement to Jeremy Clarkson. Having watched the video of him driving the 360 CS, im sure hed have a lot to say otherwise. What did he say, what was the word? Mightave been "...perfect..".

[RC45]

So in other words, you ignore absolutely every aspect despite what can be explained by a number, and then attribute the rest to "snob appeal",

Nope - I did not ignore anyhting. I took each point you made and offered the reason it is flawed or incorrect or subjective or just plain wrong.. :)

And YOU are the one who brought in the justificaiton of snob-appeal with your THATS what makes the 360 worth its price tag, and makes it that much more desirable then a Z06. comment.

YOU are the one needing to justify the price and desirabilty.. :P


you remind of the consiracy theorists that find somehow somethign behind what doesnt go their way.

Please use that 97th percentile intellect of yours and read the factual responses for what they are.. :lol: ;)


The 360 is the benchmark of the indussrty, and almost every sports car comparison made thus far uses it as such, whether its a euro mag, an american mag, an australian mag or whatever.

It has never been THE benchmark - it is A benchmark.. please refrain from such presumptious elitism.. :P

But - we all know why F cars are benchmarks - because it is expected that Ferrari not release shit - which they have seldom done.. :P

However - as proven by all the current cars and manufacturers currently producing awesome super-cars - Ferrari no longer hold exclusive rights to producing a some that is greater than the aprts.. (which is what you have been struggling to say a;ll along..:P)


So make it your lifes work to try educate the journalists that so support the 360. I mean, youve rented a 360, and you own a Z06, you have to be the highest authority.

I give it about 3 more posts before you just break down and tell me I won't understand until I am wealthy like you.. :P ;) :lol:


In the end you have to be right. The 360 is mediocre, unreliable, slow, unpractical and god only knows that everybody in their right mind should choose a Z06.

Never claimed that.. :P Because at this level of performance - choices are either dictated by price (for people like me that cannot afford cars from your neighbourhood) or subjectivity - as witnessed by Jay Leno getting one.. :P ;)


God himself must drive one.

No - I think he drives Diablo - just to stick it to satan.. :P


And the 360 is ONLY liked cause its a Ferrari, there is no other reason.

Well - pretty much - almost all the 360's have been bought by new money that thought the 355 too cheap and knew that Ferraris have street cred.. :P


Hell, if the lap time may sometimes be faster, then the Z06 must be the better car, forget about how it feels.

Feels? So again you are confirmimg that you are basing your opinions on subjective "feelings".. :)


Oh, and out of curisoisty, what does the 430 need to do to be as a standout as the 355.

Will never happen. The 355 is a real Ferrari - the 360 is a boutique wannbe that may have brought in revenue - but at the cost of having no soul.

The 355 looks better, sounds better and is better than a 360 could ever hope to be.. ;)


What attributes, or trophies or whatever u want to call it above and beyond what the 360 has garnered, does this 430 need to be not mediocre, just so we know what to expect form you for the next generation of 360/Vette debate.
The 430 has already shown it's face - and it is ugly and soulless and no doubt will be mediocre in comparison to it's peers of the day.. :P

[HeilSvenska]

Jeez...what are you guys fighting about? We all know that 430 is uglier than previous Ferraris. 360 is crossing the limits of exclusive/mass produced boundary(like 911s). And also Ferrari always had snob appeal despite the fact that they were driver's cars. $100000 bench mark always had been 911 and maybe Gallardo is better, but 360 was never THE benchmark. Corvette may have supercar level of performance(it does), it just doesn't have the quality or image to beat the crap out of Ferrari. 360 was NEVER mediocre. It may be more sedate than 355, but mediocre is the wrong word. How dare you? Camry is mediocre. I do like understated "Pinin"Farina design, but 612-430 shock tactics remind me of BMW-Bangle deal. Damned Ken

[X-ale]

RC, may I ?

links with your soul..

Link this
http://www.ciboire.com/cartes/carte-77.jpg
to you asshole and girate on it bitch :!:

I had to let go after reading too much of it.

[RC45]

360 was NEVER mediocre. It may be more sedate than 355, but mediocre is the wrong word. How dare you?[
Mediocre in comparison to it's peers - not the whole.. ;)


I do like understated "Pinin"Farina design, but 612-430 shock tactics remind me of BMW-Bangle deal. Damned Ken
What he just said.. :P

RC, may I ?

Help yourself.. :P I do not hold sole right to being a jackass.. :P ;) :lol:

[bmagni]

You are so far biased towards Ferrari that you won't accept that the 360 and Z06 are equals.


hehehe, finally !!! no one is better than the other in performance...
engineering is different and the pricing is also other thing... but the result is the same...

[RC45]

You are so far biased towards Ferrari that you won't accept that the 360 and Z06 are equals.


hehehe, finally !!! no one is better than the other in performance...
engineering is different and the pricing is also other thing... but the result is the same...

Exactly.. :P

[ice]

You are so far biased towards Ferrari that you won't accept that the 360 and Z06 are equals.


hehehe, finally !!! no one is better than the other in performance...
engineering is different and the pricing is also other thing... but the result is the same...

Exactly.. :P

Was what i said form the first post i made, ones a sports car ones an exotic. What i cannot stand is defining a 360 EXCLUSIVELY as a cafe crowd car, and how "some" claim it is mediocre, even in comparison to its peers. The 360, whether "A" benchmark or "THE" benchmark, is the furthest from mediocrity in its class. Its one of the most racerish of all its competitors. The GAlloardo being more refined with its AWD and more sedated driving, the 911 turbo taking the same route as the Gallardo, the Astons beign the most laid back of them all. hell, really the only direct competitor thats any more racerish(attributed to its power, not handling) is the Ford GT. Mediocrity defines cars with no special attributes, not cars that garner praise form every magazine or driver that drives one, except one of course :roll:


This 430 is Ferrari's newest trend of function over form, started with the Enzo. It may be brutishly beautiful, but it doesnt have the elegance that the 355 or 360 posses. Ill wait till I see it in person to know judge completely how the looks are.

[X-ale]

Well since the AMV8 lapped Nordshcliffyzzle faster than the CS, I'd call the the 360 being the most laid back. To get back on topic, kinda, what you call elegance I call girlie curves (360). The 430 extroverts the macho lost since the 355 (not talking about the Enzo). Even with the front ovals, the 430 is still a gazillion times better than the 360 wall excuse for a bumper.

[SFDMALEX]

Everybody seems to be tottaly lost. First the vetter is the king of the hill and now its on par with 360 which is "mediocre" lol.............make up your mind people....

[RC45]

You are so far biased towards Ferrari that you won't accept that the 360 and Z06 are equals.


hehehe, finally !!! no one is better than the other in performance...
engineering is different and the pricing is also other thing... but the result is the same...

Exactly.. :P

Was what i said form the first post i made,

No it's not what you said - from the get go you have claimed that the 360 (and other expensive exlusives) had something better than other mere mortals... something only those of a class and stature befitting such exposure could appreciate.. aka snob appeal.. ;)


ones a sports car ones an exotic.

Yet another subjective clsassification.. :P


What i cannot stand is defining a 360 EXCLUSIVELY as a cafe crowd car,

Well - are you now claiming MOST are bought for track duty and performance - versus them just being another Ferrari? :P


and how "some" claim it is mediocre, even in comparison to its peers.

Because it is.. :P


The 360, whether "A" benchmark or "THE" benchmark, is the furthest from mediocrity in its class.

Another subjective claim.. ;)


Its one of the most racerish of all its competitors.

:lol: - racerish.. ;) -- nice one.. :P


The GAlloardo being more refined with its AWD and more sedated driving,

Sedate? :lol:


the 911 turbo taking the same route as the Gallardo,

OMG -- ;) -- in an attempt to bolster the 360 you discredit the 911TT as a sedate drive.. :lol: :P


the Astons beign the most laid back of them all.

Sure - sub 8 minute NorthLoop laps are laid back.. :P


hell, really the only direct competitor thats any more racerish(attributed to its power, not handling) is the Ford GT.

LOL -this is getting funnier by the line.. The GT demolished the 360 everywhere - ESPECIALLY handling.. :P - it obliterated the 360 lap times everywhere it has gone.. :P


Mediocrity defines cars with no special attributes,

Whats the 360's class dominating special attribute again? Oh yeah - that's right - the highest price and exclusivity.. ;)


not cars that garner praise form every magazine or driver that drives one, except one of course :roll:

Don't worry - as I say, your F430 graduation present will do you well.. :P ;)


This 430 is Ferrari's newest trend of function over form, started with the Enzo.

Now you are really smoking something.. ;)


It may be brutishly beautiful,

Ugly rather..


but it doesnt have the elegance that the 355 or 360 posses.

The 355 is elegant - the 360 mediocre.. :P


Ill wait till I see it in person to know judge completely how the looks are.
You do that.. ;)

[RC45]

Everybody seems to be tottaly lost. First the vetter is the king of the hill and now its on par with 360 which is "mediocre" lol.............make up your mind people....

:) Exactly - the 360 is mediocre.. afterall if it is slower than the lowly plastic pushrodder and mostly bought by cafe latte posers.. ;)

[X-ale]

It's about perspective. If you take out the equal performances of both car, you're left with: the price, the engineering and the built quality. Since the price of the Ferrari is like, let's say 3 times greater, the details quality should be 3 times greater and it took 3 times more money to make the Italians get their shit together. In basics, we are talking about cars so: if it cost less to run and maintain for the same performance, isn't it wiser to get the cheapest cuz you know if you invest just a tad more you'll get a better car for not half the price of that 360. With the rest of the money you could invest in your family instead of showing off your aristoscatic( :wink: ) biped excuse for a nihilistic poser.

[bmagni]

RC 45 i really admire ur love to american cars, specially the vette...
i like it but im not a fan as u are, i prefer ferrari but i accept ur opinions, though i dont think considering the 360 a mediocre car is something i dont like and i dont agree with it...
keep on being like that !!
and remember i will give u fight sometimes ;)

[RC45]

RC 45 i really admire ur love to american cars, specially the vette...
i like it but im not a fan as u are, i prefer ferrari but i accept ur opinions, though i dont think considering the 360 a mediocre car is something i dont like and i dont agree with it...
keep on being like that !!
and remember i will give u fight sometimes ;)

Well - it's not about liking American cars - so much as it is just opposing someone elses view.. -- and being able to do it with structured logical argument... :P ;)

[so_innocent]

Dun know wut u guys think, but i reckon the front spoiler looks a bit too low.. very likely to get scrapped when going over a speed hump

[Ian_yamaue]

The 360 always looked more Japanese than Italian to me.
:?: :?: :?:
Most of the japanese cars (cars, not those 600cc kitchen utes) are designed to look german or italian, the favoured cars for the japaneses taste. Don't confuse master with aprendice, the japs cars looks ferrari.

[a007apl]

Well, i dont enter much in Ferrari thread but i found:
http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/galleries/ferrari430/pages/index.htm
and i'm dont have sure of here have news.

[HeilSvenska]

The 360 always looked more Japanese than Italian to me.
:?: :?: :?:
Most of the japanese cars (cars, not those 600cc kitchen utes) are designed to look german or italian, the favoured cars for the japaneses taste. Don't confuse master with aprendice, the japs cars looks ferrari.

I wish. Japanese cars are crap. except for some.

[X-ale]

Thanks to a007apl :!:
http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/galleries/ferrari430/images/1.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/galleries/ferrari430/images/F430_2.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/galleries/ferrari430/images/F430_3.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/galleries/ferrari430/images/F430_4.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/galleries/ferrari430/images/F430_5.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/files/specials/galleries/ferrari430/images/F430_6.jpg

[Toronto]

just some "real" pics of the car
http://img16.exs.cx/img16/8571/photos.jpg

[ae86_16v]

I still don't like that tiny hole in the middle of the bumper. But I guess it is used to direct air underneath the chassis.

[mindgam3]

I can't be arsed with the vette/360 arguement anymore but....

As for looks, the 355, 360 and 430 are all good looking, each in a different way and each is an evolution of the other. Which one is better looking is your opinion...

As for the 360 and 430 not having soul..... well thats just bullshit, ALL ferraris have soul and i really can't understand RC45, your arguement about the 355 being the last real ferrari. As for the snob appeal you associate with the 360, and i presume the 430, a just as large percentage of buyers almost certainly bought the 355 for its "snob appeal", it's the same with every expensive upper marque car. You will always have "snobs" that buy them. Hell theres undoubtedly people who just buy a vette for the image....

[Max Power]

There are ppl who probably buy hyundais over Kias for the image..... :wink:

[a007apl]

Thanks to a007apl :!:

http://www.calshop.biz/ferrari_f430/image2.jpg
http://www.newstreet.it/img/magazine/654/ferrari-f430-09.jpg
:wink:

[SilviaEvo]

the race is not a button anymore

[a007apl]

http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/f1_450.jpg
http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/f2_450.jpg
http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/f3_450.jpg
http://www.auto-motor-sport.de/sixcms/media.php/23/f4_450.jpg

[Ian_yamaue]

http://www.newstreet.it/img/magazine/654/ferrari-f430-09.jpg
:wink:
Coool, Manettino in a road car :D

[HeilSvenska]

The rear looks better in the "real" pics than in the official ones... I'm afraid I don't like it as I did at first sight. Let's wait for the first on the road to have an opinion then.

And about the "snob image", I think 50% of the people who buys an expensive car does it for the image they get driving those cars, from a M3 to a Carrera S or a Modena. May be the Enzo or the CGT and this kind of supercars are different (just enthusiast-and-rich buyers) but with the small Ferraris, and the 100000 euros car range... most of the buyers just do it for the image.

If you ask some Modena drivers what was the previous Ferrari to the F355, I'm sure they don't know the answer...

That's what's so sad about modern car market. It's not the cars' fault, it's just that when people buy expensive cars. they don't know what the brand and the company stand for. Especially if they buy used cars from news paper or mass sellers, not the official dealers.

[HeilSvenska]

Coool, Manettino in a road car

a first.

[mindgam3]

anyone got any tech info on the e-diff and manettino?

[RC45]

I can't be arsed with the vette/360 arguement anymore but....

Well that's because you lost :)


As for looks, the 355, 360 and 430 are all good looking, each in a different way and each is an evolution of the other. Which one is better looking is your opinion...

And in my opinion the 360 and 430 (and 612) are mediocre looking boutique yuppie wannabes.:)


As for the 360 and 430 not having soul..... well thats just bullshit, ALL ferraris have soul

All except the 360 and 430.


and i really can't understand RC45, your arguement about the 355 being the last real ferrari.

Just because you dont understand it - doesn't mean it's not true. :)


As for the snob appeal you associate with the 360, and i presume the 430, a just as large percentage of buyers almost certainly bought the 355 for its "snob appeal"

Not really. There was a lot of new money entering the market place in the last 5 years - and although the 355 had some "non-Ferrari" appeal - at the time, Ferrari was not yet the "new yuppie" car of choice.

the 360 became the first truely Yuppie Ferrari - and much the same way Ducati went form being the "real bikers sport bike", it was boutique packaged and marketed enough to where Ducati's have become the Yuppie sport bike of choice - and even though Ducati is the most heritage rich bike manufacturer in it's niche - the majority of current Ducatiste couldn't even spell Desmodromic let alone under stand it's origins.

That is why with factual conviction I am stating for the record, the 360 and 430 are the YUPPIE WANNABE Ferraris.


, it's the same with every expensive upper marque car.

See above for clarification.


You will always have "snobs" that buy them. Hell theres undoubtedly people who just buy a vette for the image....
Actually the "snob market" migrates from marque to marque over time, and while the core die-hards are always there - many times once the new found sales and profits that the snobs and yuppies bring with them are appreciated, the product/marque in question sometimes then decides tho alter the product to begin catering to this new larger market and the original core values of the product get diluted.

Case in point - Porsche and their SUV - I would not be surprised if with the next 10 years you wouldn't see the profit the SUV's bring result in other Porsche production lines being modified converted and products dropped to favour the production of SUVs.. ;)

[bmagni]

/\/\/\ i love rc 45's short posts

[RC45]

/\/\/\

Yep - my original reply is above yours.. :)


i love

In Biblical sense I would imagine.. ;)


rc 45's short posts
Well - when the truth needs to be set free, sometimes there is no short path and one may find ones self in the unenviable situation of having to choose between brevity on the one hand - a brevity that while concisely addressing the issue will result in the lesser intellectual type mis-interpreting the content and intent of the reply - and a defendable dissertation - that while presenting irrefutable content and position may still run the risk of overwhelming the lesser intellectual reviewer - on the other.

;) - I do believe this may be a linguistic first - "pun by sarcasm".. :P

[bmagni]

/\/\/\, LOL, i understand ur point, u answer everything u want to answer and emphazise it so the poster and us understand what ur replying... i would do the same if i had so many points to expose ;)

[Toronto]

the last real ferrari was the F40, case closed.

vette z06/360(not the CS) = speed (who cares the e55amg is faster 0-100-0)

there is more to a car then it's speed, the 360 is still a ferrari, and has just as much soul as the 355 and even the 348 and right down to its roots in the dino. all have the same formula.

vette ugly shit knob, 360 sweet shift knob 8)

different strokes for different folks.........
360/430 is better then the vette IMO, its the one i would want to buy.

[Ian_yamaue]

the last real ferrari was the F40, case closed.

vette z06/360(not the CS) = speed (who cares the e55amg is faster 0-100-0)

there is more to a car then it's speed, the 360 is still a ferrari, and has just as much soul as the 355 and even the 348 and right down to its roots in the dino. all have the same formula.

vette ugly shit knob, 360 sweet shift knob 8)

different strokes for different folks.........
360/430 is better then the vette IMO, its the one i would want to buy.
Even as Tifosi, I agree that Ferrari is losing some of it's wild appeal. Every Ferrari brings racing solutions to the road, but the interior is geting too classy for my taste, the electronic aids go straigh against Il Commendattore's way of thinking that the real pilot has to suffer to drive, but I need to understand that's an expensive car, and it have to be made for rich ppl who not always enjoy Enzo's ideal drive for his cars. Sad, but that evolution, is to ensure that the Ferrari Gencode will last.

[X-ale]

the electronic aids go straigh against
WTF? Dude! You are free to be slower, just press the off button... :|


Il Commendattore
WTF? Who? The commentator :?:


the real pilot has to suffer to drive
WTF? What? Masochist first, pilot second? :roll:


the Ferrari Gencode
WTF? Huh? Car DNA? :?

http://www.boysstuff.co.uk/images/prod_zoom_center/stamps_right_500_7114.jpg

Original crap, but still just crap. :idea: You should write a novel! Maybe on Tifosi pride?

[HeilSvenska]

Il Commendattore


The knight. And it's misspelled and it denotes Enzo Ferrari. The correct spelling would be Il Commendatore. I'm not a Tifosi, but I knew that.

To address Ian_yamaue's comment, Ferrari does not need to make mass produced cars to keep its "car genes" go on. It's Ferrari for god's sake. It would have made more sense if it made a cheap 6 cylinder model for the mass since the new rich want to buy badges not the "Ferrari experience."

And X-ale I think you have to be reminded the fact that a large portion of JW members don't speak English as their first language.

[ae86_16v]

Case in point - Porsche and their SUV - I would not be surprised if with the next 10 years you wouldn't see the profit the SUV's bring result in other Porsche production lines being modified converted and products dropped to favour the production of SUVs.. ;)

Couple of things. The sales of SUVs are starting to decline. Reason, not sure. Nothing firm yet, but it might be because of increase oil prices or that the "fab" of it is starting to wear off.

The other thing is that the intention of the Cayenne was to produce a cashcow so that the profits from that product will support continuing R&D in their primary market, sportscar.

I highly doubt that Porsche will drop their 911/Boxster or CGT in favor of a new SUV line.

[mindgam3]

I can't be arsed with the vette/360 arguement anymore but....

Well that's because you lost :)


Well seeing as though you started out saying the vette was the better car and now you think they're equal, thats a point in my favour ;)

As for the 355 vs 360 vs 430 debate....

For stating the 360 and 430 are yuppie wannabees with factual conviction with no "facts" is well done :P

:arrow: All are ferraris, designed and built by passionate engineers and workers and therefore ALL have soul

:arrow: All are offered in coupe and convertible variants (or will be soon)

:arrow: All try to encoporate racing technology which is the basis of Ferrari itself.... no racing, no ferrari

:arrow: All have the usual creature comforts, ABS, air conditioning, leather etc etc

:arrow: All are more than capable on road and on on track

:arrow: The 355 and 360 both have challenge race series, and no doubt the 430 will too

:arrow: All are offered with a manual and F1 box. Whilst many think the F1 box is just bought by "wannabe yuppies" it is infact in the cars because of ferraris race technology which is what the heart of ferrari is all about. The fact that "wannabe yuppies" buy this option so they can sling it into auto mode is a side effect, it doesen't make the car any more or less ferrari. The same goes with the new e-diff and manettino which are from based on F1 products.

:arrow: And "the new interior is too classy"? Wtf? Ferraris have always been about style and speed, their Italian.... the Italian culture revolves around style....

The 360 and 430 are natural evolutions of the 355 whether you like it or not. Whether the 355 is the last "real" ferrari is debatable. But based on what i've said above in my opinion the 360 and 430 are both very real ferraris.

Car design won't progress if you don't use new technology, just because the newer ferraris are more technologically advanced doesent mean they're any more or any less of a ferrari than any other model.

[Ian_yamaue]

Il Commendattore
WTF? Who? The commentator :?:
WTF? What? Masochist first, pilot second? :roll:
You really know a lot about Ferrari huh?
WTF? Huh? Car DNA? :?
Original crap, but still just crap. :idea: You should write a novel! Maybe on Tifosi pride?
Funny man... :?

[X-ale]

Obviously no, I'm no Ferrari-Giant-Head and I'm no part-time-Tifosi-while-we-are-winning... I don't know italian either. Ian, remember Enzo saying: "Aerodynamics are for those who can't build engines"?

So first, I design and test/simulate aerodynamics and physics for a living so I can't afford error since many lives are at stakes. Second, if Ze Commander was so right, Sauber would be second in the championship since it has the uber engine by Ferrari, who cares about aerodynamics or physics right? Third, enough?

He said that at once, then he realized he was wrong. :wink:

[HeilSvenska]

Aerodynamics are for those who can't build engines


Phuhahahah...

he's right.

[X-ale]

:fist:

[Ian_yamaue]

Obviously no, I'm no Ferrari-Giant-Head and... ... I don't know italian either.
I believe it's clear.
I'm no part-time-Tifosi-while-we-are-winning...
Good for you, BTW my mom's Italian, so I'm not part-time-Tifosi-while-we-win too.
Ian, remember Enzo saying: "Aerodynamics are for those who can't build engines"?
So first, I design and test/simulate aerodynamics and physics for a living so I can't afford error since many lives are at stakes. Second, if Ze Commander was so right, Sauber would be second in the championship since it has the uber engine by Ferrari, who cares about aerodynamics or physics right? Third, enough?
:?:

[SFDMALEX]

[quote=mindgam3]I can't be arsed with the vette/360 arguement anymore but....
Well that's because you lost :)

Ignorance is bliss ain't it my friend? :roll:

And as for your yuppie car remark, the Vette is the biggest yuppie car out there. :lol: Not true? Cant even argue that. 90% of Vettes I see are automatics, with a dirty interior with women being a large portion of its drivers being women. Whats your excuse for this one?

And how can you say anythig, anything about the F430? The car isnt even on the streets yet.

[bmagni]

. Ian, remember Enzo saying: "Aerodynamics are for those who can't build engines"?

So first, I design and test/simulate aerodynamics and physics for a living so I can't afford error since many lives are at stakes. Second, if Ze Commander was so right, Sauber would be second in the championship since it has the uber engine by Ferrari, who cares about aerodynamics or physics right? Third, enough?

He said that at once, then he realized he was wrong. :wink:

dude, remember Enzo was a cocky person, he said those kind of phrases to mock of everyone... he really wasnt serious

[ice]

X-ale, please, stop posting about ferrari's when you know nothing about them or their history.

Enzo came from a different era of cars, and i dont think anybody can doubt his success, since under his leadership came cars like the 250 series of cars, the all conquering P3's and P4's, and the almighty F40, among many others. He may have said some questionable things, but it was all in the name of keeping up an image. You think he wore sunglasses all the time because it was too sunny?

And as for the 355 being the last true ferrari, thats a joke. Its not as fast nor as racy as a 360. It never raced in Gt besides the challenge series and above all, its lines were decidely NOT Ferrari. Id say its far form the last true Ferrari. The 360 does what Enzo wanted better then the 355, on the race track and on the roads.

[bmagni]

X-ale, please, stop posting about ferrari's when you know nothing about them or their history


dude, this is about opinion, if we respect ur opinion about "theres nothing better than ferrari", please respect ours..

[X-ale]

I know enough about cars to post whatever i deem worthy you little puto.

I've watched Enzo's history DVD and read around the net, it's enough for me, not that my opinion is based solely just on that. Enzo was a very arrogant fascist bastard and successfull(at it).

Nevertheless, I've loved the Testarossa before you were out of your diapers and it's not your presumptuous recent presence in here that's gonna change anything.

[RC45]

:arrow: And "the new interior is too classy"? Wtf? Ferraris have always been about style and speed, their Italian.... the Italian culture revolves around style....

Bull Fucking Shit...

Have you actually ever seen the interior of Ferraris as they evolved over time?

If you had actually taken the time to observe you would note that for a long time Ferraris were purely funtional interiors - with the road variants at least having leather seats.

The "Fiat" years saw the Ferrari interiors still with leather seats, but atrocious switch gear and internal fit and finish and ergonomics.

They were essentially drivers cars - with few concessions to creature comforts.

These new yuppie mobiles are built to ensure sales to the "boutique" crowd. Sure a few are purchased by enthusiasts, but the large number of leased 360's in the US is testimony to the large number of yuppies that just wnt something fancy tospend $1500 a month on.

If you don't believe that the majority of 360's are bought by wannabe yuppie types then you are in denial.


And as for your yuppie car remark, the Vette is the biggest yuppie car out there. :lol: Not true?

Not true.


Cant even argue that. 90% of Vettes I see are automatics, with a dirty interior with women being a large portion of its drivers being women. Whats your excuse for this one?

A large % of Coupes are automatics (but then so are Benzs ;)) - this is the hair dressers car.

You will get no argument from me that the Coupe is a cruiser for pussies - however, out of reverence for other Coupe Corvette owners that may not be able to or want to buy a Z06 I humour them... ;)

I need not purchase a C5 until they delivered on the Z06 promise.

People who assume the Coupe and the Z06 are the same car are ill informed.

The coupe is for hair-dressers and pussies - and the Z06 is for drivers.

And unfortunatly the demographics of Corvette buyers has it at about 90% men and 10% women.. - as quoted by some survey group (Gartner of something)

And as far as Corvette coupes being bought by yuppies - I don't think so - considering the coupe costs less than $40,000 after discounts - it is about $20,000 below the entry level yuppie territory.

:)

Yuppies don't like the Z06 because it is a brash noisy, stick shift, drivers car - no pooftas allowed :)

[RC45]

X-ale, please, stop posting about ferrari's when you know nothing about them or their history.

Enzo came from a different era of cars, and i dont think anybody can doubt his success, since under his leadership came cars like the 250 series of cars, the all conquering P3's and P4's, and the almighty F40, among many others. He may have said some questionable things, but it was all in the name of keeping up an image. You think he wore sunglasses all the time because it was too sunny?

And as for the 355 being the last true ferrari, thats a joke. Its not as fast nor as racy as a 360. It never raced in Gt besides the challenge series and above all, its lines were decidely NOT Ferrari. Id say its far form the last true Ferrari. The 360 does what Enzo wanted better then the 355, on the race track and on the roads.

I think I heard the mail man delivering the trust fund check... :roll:

[bmagni]

Have you actually ever seen the interior of Ferraris as they evolved over time?
They were essentially drivers cars - with few concessions to creature comforts.

the same as corvettes have evolved, just fancy and with more style in the case of ferrari


These new yuppie mobiles are built to ensure sales to the "boutique" crowd. Sure a few are purchased by enthusiasts, but the large number of leased 360's in the US is testimony to the large number of yuppies that just wnt something fancy tospend $1500 a month on.

If you don't believe that the majority of 360's are bought by wannabe yuppie types then you are in denial.


when u compete against cars like the corvette, thet are cheap and have the same perfo, u have to find a way to sell more... in this case selling to yuppies


And as for your yuppie car remark, the Vette is the biggest yuppie car out there. :lol: Not true?

Not true.

true


And as far as Corvette coupes being bought by yuppies - I don't think so - considering the coupe costs less than $40,000 after discounts - it is about $20,000 below the entry level yuppie territory.

id say wannabe yuppies


Yuppies don't like the Z06 because it is a brash noisy, stick shift, drivers car - no pooftas allowed :)
no, they dont like it cause its a cheap car, that more people can buy, and its not classy... ;)

[SFDMALEX]

And whats so different about the 360s cockpit? I really dont see your point.

[SFDMALEX]

:arrow: And "the new interior is too classy"? Wtf? Ferraris have always been about style and speed, their Italian.... the Italian culture revolves around style....

Bull Fucking Shit...

Have you actually ever seen the interior of Ferraris as they evolved over time?

If you had actually taken the time to observe you would note that for a long time Ferraris were purely funtional interiors - with the road variants at least having leather seats.

The "Fiat" years saw the Ferrari interiors still with leather seats, but atrocious switch gear and internal fit and finish and ergonomics.

They were essentially drivers cars - with few concessions to creature comforts.

These new yuppie mobiles are built to ensure sales to the "boutique" crowd. Sure a few are purchased by enthusiasts, but the large number of leased 360's in the US is testimony to the large number of yuppies that just wnt something fancy tospend $1500 a month on.

If you don't believe that the majority of 360's are bought by wannabe yuppie types then you are in denial.


And as for your yuppie car remark, the Vette is the biggest yuppie car out there. :lol: Not true?

Not true.


Cant even argue that. 90% of Vettes I see are automatics, with a dirty interior with women being a large portion of its drivers being women. Whats your excuse for this one?

A large % of Coupes are automatics (but then so are Benzs ;)) - this is the hair dressers car.

You will get no argument from me that the Coupe is a cruiser for pussies - however, out of reverence for other Coupe Corvette owners that may not be able to or want to buy a Z06 I humour them... ;)

I need not purchase a C5 until they delivered on the Z06 promise.

People who assume the Coupe and the Z06 are the same car are ill informed.

The coupe is for hair-dressers and pussies - and the Z06 is for drivers.

And unfortunatly the demographics of Corvette buyers has it at about 90% men and 10% women.. - as quoted by some survey group (Gartner of something)

And as far as Corvette coupes being bought by yuppies - I don't think so - considering the coupe costs less than $40,000 after discounts - it is about $20,000 below the entry level yuppie territory.

:)

Yuppies don't like the Z06 because it is a brash noisy, stick shift, drivers car - no pooftas allowed :)

First off. Your cockpit argument doesnt make any sense. I dont see how 360s cockpit is different from any other cockpit. Just look at that dash for Christ sake...


And on the second point you basicly said and proven that the Vette is a big pussy car for tuppie possers.

Basicly the whole Vette name is a big loose pussy, with the exception of the Z06.........hmm so how does it feel to be derived from a pussy car?

:lol:

[RC45]

And on the second point you basicly said and proven that the Vette is a big pussy car for tuppie possers.

Basicly the whole Vette name is a big loose pussy, with the exception of the Z06.........hmm so how does it feel to be derived from a pussy car?

:lol:

I have NEVER not said the coupe is a pussy car. :P

It is... since the C5 debuted in 1997 has always been a pussy car.

I don't give a shit - because I am confident in the Z06's abiltity to run and gun as a true sports car.

All you Z06 haters are just that - haters, because you are either to proud or too stupid to admit that for less than the cost of a middle tier BMTroubleYou you can purchase and drive a car with true sports car performance and ability.

Unless you are a wealthy punter all the motherfucking talk and hypothesizing about how great of a car these other super-expensive cars are - is NOTHING BUT BENCHRACING and POSING. ;) -- Dare I say ricer.. :P

I freely admit to the fact that I cannot afford to justify the purchase of a $200,000 car - so instead being all snobby and stuck up and pompous (and settling for a pussy Carrera ;)) - I simply chose to purchase (when it arrived) a car that allows me to enjoy the driving performance many other wankers only dream about . :lol:

That's right - if you can't afford to buy the "uber exotic" and you sit there postulating about this fact/that fact and how "if this and if that" you would buy this and the other - but you don't purchase ANY performance car - you are a tossing wanker. :D

So - go ahead and hate and dispise and what ever - but when I get back from my business trip here in Rockville Maryland, I will again be daily driving a car that will blow every one of your anemic rice rockest into the weeds - and a bunch of exotics as well ;)

That is in a straight line, around the corners, around the cones and all the way to it's topend and then back to zero as well. (obviously this does not include those members who have access to daddy's money and his uber -collection - lucky you)

In the meantime - all the Tifosi wannabes and groupies will be cutting off their own noses to spite their own faces - than rather admit that there are other and more readily achievable alternatives out there.

In other words - I am a driving enthusiast first - and a rivetcounting car spotter and bench racer second.

Let me repeat that :

I am a driving enthusiast first.

Instead of just dreaming about it - I do it.

My steed of choice may turn out to be "beneath" the station of these perceived status symbols and the status y'all have assigned to them - but that sure does'n prevent it from being more than capable.

Which leaves only snob appeal and exclusivity after you peel away the layers of your "dream cars".

:)

[RC45]

Yuppies don't like the Z06 because it is a brash noisy, stick shift, drivers car - no pooftas allowed :)
no, they dont like it cause its a cheap car, that more people can buy, and its not classy... ;)

So you now publicly admit your are poser - not a true perforance enthusiast.. :)

[SFDMALEX]

And on the second point you basicly said and proven that the Vette is a big pussy car for tuppie possers.

Basicly the whole Vette name is a big loose pussy, with the exception of the Z06.........hmm so how does it feel to be derived from a pussy car?

:lol:

I have NEVER not said the coupe is a pussy car. :P

It is... since the C5 debuted in 1997 has always been a pussy car.

I don't give a shit - because I am confident in the Z06's abiltity to run and gun as a true sports car.

All you Z06 haters are just that - haters, because you are either to proud or too stupid to admit that for less than the cost of a middle tier BMTroubleYou you can purchase and drive a car with true sports car performance and ability.

Unless you are a wealthy punter all the motherfucking talk and hypothesizing about how great of a car these other super-expensive cars are - is NOTHING BUT BENCHRACING and POSING. ;) -- Dare I say ricer.. :P

I freely admit to the fact that I cannot afford to justify the purchase of a $200,000 car - so instead being all snobby and stuck up and pompous (and settling for a pussy Carrera ;)) - I simply chose to purchase (when it arrived) a car that allows me to enjoy the driving performance many other wankers only dream about . :lol:

That's right - if you can't afford to buy the "uber exotic" and you sit there postulating about this fact/that fact and how "if this and if that" you would buy this and the other - but you don't purchase ANY performance car - you are a tossing wanker. :D

So - go ahead and hate and dispise and what ever - but when I get back from my business trip here in Rockville Maryland, I will again be daily driving a car that will blow every one of your anemic rice rockest into the weeds - and a bunch of exotics as well ;)

That is in a straight line, around the corners, around the cones and all the way to it's topend and then back to zero as well. (obviously this does not include those members who have access to daddy's money and his uber -collection - lucky you)

In the meantime - all the Tifosi wannabes and groupies will be cutting off their own noses to spite their own faces - than rather admit that there are other and more readily achievable alternatives out there.

In other words - I am a driving enthusiast first - and a rivetcounting car spotter and bench racer second.

Let me repeat that :

I am a driving enthusiast first.

Instead of just dreaming about it - I do it.

My steed of choice may turn out to be "beneath" the station of these perceived status symbols and the status y'all have assigned to them - but that sure does'n prevent it from being more than capable.

Which leaves only snob appeal and exclusivity after you peel away the layers of your "dream cars".

:)

Hater? THe last thing I hate is the Z06. Why would I hate it?

What I hate is the bullshit of the z06 being god and peoples ignorance of facts when they dont like them.

There really is no point in arguing anything anymore. Why? Ignorace :wink: I gave the z06 all the credit it deserves. And when I countered the z06 with facts I got bullshit, ignorance and excuses...

Oh well. Live in denial. Love your z06, and dream of owning every sports car there is... :D

[SFDMALEX]

And speaking of haters...You come out as the biggest hater with comments like "mediocre", "cafe latte crowd" and "yuppie car"

[RC45]

Hater? THe last thing I hate is the Z06. Why would I hate it?

Hater is a state of mind - not a state of envy ;)


What I hate is the bullshit of the z06 being god and peoples ignorance of facts when they dont like them.

I never said it was a god - anybody with a pulse would know that.

However the cars performance is fact.

If you (and others) choose not to believe it because it doesn't fit in with your warped sense of reality - so be it.


There really is no point in arguing anything anymore. Why? Ignorace :wink: I gave the z06 all the credit it deserves. And when I countered the z06 with facts I got bullshit, ignorance and excuses...

Not quite :) - y'all tried to PROVE it was lesser of a performer that you are prepared to believe it is.. :P THAT is denial :)

Besides that - Ferrari cornered the market on snob appeal - yet somehow Ferrari is a god.. ;)


Oh well. Live in denial. Love your z06, and dream of owning every sports car there is... :D
That's the thing - no dreaming required. ;)

It is simpy a means to an end - a means to experience the level of performance that OTHERS dream of :D :lol:

Now who is in denial.. ? ;)

[RC45]

And speaking of haters...You come out as the biggest hater with comments like "mediocre", "cafe latte crowd" and "yuppie car"

Nah - hater would be angered at the other poor soul - I am humoured by their need to compensate and justify with opulence and status.

The guy that saved every penny to buy a used 308 is more of an enthusiast than many privileged yuppies.. :P

[SFDMALEX]

You are :wink: :D

I never tried to prove it was a lesser performer. I was proving that the z06 is not as great as you want it to be :wink: But somehow my facts were "irelavant" and yours were "perfect for the argument".

Anyways big deal. The best sports car America has to offer beats a 5 year old entry level Ferrari. :roll:

[RC45]

You are :wink: :D

I never tried to prove it was a lesser performer. I was proving that the z06 is not as great as you want it to be :wink:

Whether I want it to be or not - it is.. :P


But somehow my facts were "irelavant" and yours were "perfect for the argument".

Not just perfect for the argument - but correct as well ;)


Anyways big deal. The best sports car America has to offer beats a 5 year old entry level Ferrari. :roll:
Hhhmm - considering it "beat" the entry level Ferrari the day it (the Z06) arrived and the Ferrari was only a year on the road - and then it equals the "exclusive" ultra-exotic latest version... it does exactly what it was designed to do.

And as far as being the "best sports car" - far from it, it's simply the cheapest.. :P - And you forget the other limited edition American cars that beat everything up to and including the "super Ferrari".

:D

[SFDMALEX]

Oh I love your last sentence. It just proves that there is no point of having an argument with you.

Anyway care to mention what these AMERICAN cars are?

Because you just sound like an angry redneck.

Lastly why do you bring that up for? Thats not what the argument is about. :lol:

America is great I know. Have fun. No need to bring it up again though.


Ohhh and the last time I checked Italy didnt need to fight their opposition in their business as a nation.

[bmagni]

Yuppies don't like the Z06 because it is a brash noisy, stick shift, drivers car - no pooftas allowed :)
no, they dont like it cause its a cheap car, that more people can buy, and its not classy... ;)

So you now publicly admit your are poser - not a true perforance enthusiast.. :)

no, when did i say that ???
i said they... not us...

[RC45]

Yuppies don't like the Z06 because it is a brash noisy, stick shift, drivers car - no pooftas allowed :)
no, they dont like it cause its a cheap car, that more people can buy, and its not classy... ;)

So you now publicly admit your are poser - not a true perforance enthusiast.. :)

no, when did i say that ???
i said they... not us...

oh... my bad.. :P ;)

[RC45]

Oh I love your last sentence. It just proves that there is no point of having an argument with you.

Anyway care to mention what these AMERICAN cars are?

Mosler, Saleen, Panoz.



Because you just sound like an angry redneck.

Hardly - I am always smiling. :)


Lastly why do you bring that up for? Thats not what the argument is about. :lol:

You did :P - you insist it only meets the entry level Ferrari - so I simply stated there are other challengers to the other ferraris. :)


America is great I know. Have fun. No need to bring it up again though.

Great? WHo said anything about being great? :)


Ohhh and the last time I checked Italy didnt need to fight their opposition in their business as a nation.
No - because they already sold out everything to outside control :) ;)

[SFDMALEX]

Oh I love your last sentence. It just proves that there is no point of having an argument with you.

Anyway care to mention what these AMERICAN cars are?

Mosler, Saleen, Panoz.



Im sure you are aware of how many times Ferrari beat Mosler, Saleen and Panoz. :wink: Ohh wait. Whos dominating the FIA GT atm....how bout BGTC....how about last season Grand Am......ohhh thats irrelavent.

Lastly were are talking about Corvette. Not about Americas auto industry. You are an angry redneck after all.

[bmagni]

how about last season Grand Am......ohhh thats irrelavent.

lol, but how about NASCAR oh, thats irrelevant too... :lol:

[SFDMALEX]

Oh who can forget nascar

[SFDMALEX]

Oh I love your last sentence. It just proves that there is no point of having an argument with you.

Anyway care to mention what these AMERICAN cars are?

Mosler, Saleen, Panoz.



Because you just sound like an angry redneck.

Hardly - I am always smiling. :)


Lastly why do you bring that up for? Thats not what the argument is about. :lol:

You did :P - you insist it only meets the entry level Ferrari - so I simply stated there are other challengers to the other ferraris. :)


America is great I know. Have fun. No need to bring it up again though.

Great? WHo said anything about being great? :)


Ohhh and the last time I checked Italy didnt need to fight their opposition in their business as a nation.
No - because they already sold out everything to outside control :) ;)

So do I, smile all the time :wink: :D

America not GREAT :shock: OMFG! I love how you change personalities when you want to :lol:

[RC45]

LOL - this is the type of person your precious Primadona appeals to ... ;)


:arrow: http://bbs.clubplanet.com/archive/index.php/t-130667.html
weed247
I SAW A 2002 SILVER FERRARI MODENA 360 WHILE I WAS DRINKIN STARBUCKS AND EATIN A CHOCOLATE BAR.AT FIRST,I WAS LIKE WHAT THE HELL IS THAT SOUND.I HEARD IT COMING FROM FEW MILES AWAY.ALL OF SUDDEN ,I SAW SILVER MODENA COMING OUT OF NO WHERE.MAN,THAT THING IS NOISY.BUT THAT CAR IS THE BOMB.OH MAN I WANT TO GET THAT SHIT SO BAD.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





From Ferrarichat...
:arrow: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/printthread.php?t=1685&page=10&pp=20

Amir 03-19-2004 03:35 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

red 360 spyder, challenge grille, believe its the same guy we keep seeing at that starbucks in highland village......

spotted today 3:30 pm on westheimer heading towards Wesleyan

Amir 03-21-2004 11:44 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin
I saw a yellow 360 modena in the Starbucks/jamba juice parking lot westheimer@post oak sat night


Most likely my friend Kareem. That's his car, and he's part owner of Elite exotic rental car right by the galleria.

We saw his car today also at the same starbucks, parked in the back.

Anyway, saw most likely the same 360 spyder, red w/challenge grille, flying down Westheimer again going past Post Oak and Sage away from the Galleria, towards Beltway 8.

Earlier in the afternoon about (4:30 pm), I spotted a slate grey Porsche Gt2, with roll cage in the back. Hot car.

Houston has definitely been moving up.....I see at least one Ferrari on the road everyday.

[SFDMALEX]

And that has anything to do with what :|

[RC45]

And that has anything to do with what :|

Well - first off the "360 dreamers" - and then the "360 spotters" and the reality of the 360 owners.. they simply drive 360's because it is the uber-yuppie-mobile of the moment.

:)

Maybe not where you come form - but almost certainly around the Houstn area... far more 360's are pure status symbol purchases and not performance car purchases.. :)

[SFDMALEX]

I agree. :wink: Same for the Vette. Except the Z06 which is a limited high performance version of the couple :wink: But I dont see any wankers in 360CSs either so that kinda of evens it out doesnt it? :wink:

[Caps8419]

um so yea f430.... who likes it? who doesn't? who wants sfdmalex and rc45 to stop bitching?

(everyone else on jabbasworld) "oo ooo we do! sfdmalex stop bitching about 360's... there beautiful cars and yes it seams every yuppies got one, but who cares there still exotic right? and rc45 stop with the never ending rant on vettes this vettes that.... i can do a search and find like 100 topic of you repeating this mantra. face it. vettes are not exotic, there about at common as mercs where i live. this topic is about the f430. so lets talk about the fucking car!"

[RC45]

um so yea f430.... who likes it? who doesn't? who wants sfdmalex and rc45 to stop bitching?

(everyone else on jabbasworld) "oo ooo we do! sfdmalex stop bitching about 360's... there beautiful cars and yes it seams every yuppies got one, but who cares there still exotic right? and rc45 stop with the never ending rant on vettes this vettes that.... i can do a search and find like 100 topic of you repeating this mantra. face it. vettes are not exotic, there about at common as mercs where i live. this topic is about the f430. so lets talk about the fucking car!"

How about you kiss my fucking ass.. :P

Take note of the astonishing increase in views and topic popularity when myself and other great orators such as Alex descend on almost dead topics.. :)

We make for good TV :)

And I guess you just comfirmed the snobb appeal... I guess exclusivity and oppulance are more important than performance ... yet another girly-man driver wannabe.. :P

[fedezyl]

hahaha, well...i've read it all!! wow....I wonder if I can predict the lotery numbers too, in any case, i'd love to ever have the chance to drive a Z06 and a modena, I drove an auto C5 once and wasn't impressed at all, but it seems the C5 and the Z06 are two different beasts...
by the way, how often do you go to track days Rc45?? i'd love to see a vid of your car in action on the track!

[RC45]

I agree. :wink: Same for the Vette. Except the Z06 which is a limited high performance version of the couple :wink: But I dont see any wankers in 360CSs either so that kinda of evens it out doesnt it? :wink:

I may go so far as to concede yo 360SC comment..

So - we have come to agreement that 360 and Vette Coupe are pussy cruisers for wannabe's and yuppies.. and the CS and Z06 are for drivers... :)

:lol:

[RC45]

hahaha, well...i've read it all!! wow....I wonder if I can predict the lotery numbers too, in any case, i'd love to ever have the chance to drive a Z06 and a modena, I drove an auto C5 once and wasn't impressed at all, but it seems the C5 and the Z06 are two different beasts...

Yes - the C5 coupe (even with Z51 package) is really tame and dulled down for all the hairdressers.. :)


by the way, how often do you go to track days Rc45?? i'd love to see a vid of your car in action on the track!

The sad reality? :lol: - everytime I have taken the car to the track I got zero track time because the crappy quality GM clutch never lasts long enough to withstand my abusive driving .. :)

I really should install an aftermarket kit and just be done withit.. :)

[SFDMALEX]

I agree. :wink: Same for the Vette. Except the Z06 which is a limited high performance version of the couple :wink: But I dont see any wankers in 360CSs either so that kinda of evens it out doesnt it? :wink:

I may go so far as to concede yo 360SC comment..

So - we have come to agreement that 360 and Vette Coupe are pussy cruisers for wannabe's and yuppies.. and the C2 and Z06 are for drivers... :)

:lol:

No. yuppies drive em. :wink:

[fedezyl]

[quote] The sad reality? Laughing - everytime I have taken the car to the track I got zero track time because the crappy quality GM clutch never lasts long enough to withstand my abusive driving .. Smile

I really should install an aftermarket kit and just be done withit.. Smile

That's sad to hear, you've modded your vette though, I though you might have had an aftermarket clutch installed...too bad cause I loved the videos you made and i'd love to see the vette in action on the track..

As far as the C5 goes, the one I drove was a convertible, with the cream top and I think creamy greish paint, really horrid colours for the car....I wasn't really impressed with it, specially the auto box, it is fast don't get me wrong, but I think I was expecting a bit more from it than what actually was there....

[bmagni]

And I guess you just comfirmed the snobb appeal... I guess exclusivity and oppulance are more important than performance ... yet another girly-man driver wannabe.. :P

man, driving a z06 doesn't make u a macho, neither driving a 360.... not even drvin a monster truck with a huge mustache, big belly, and hairy arms ( :roll: well maybe that CAN)...
if we'd say that driving all fancy cars make u a pussy... well some people here are pussies, including jabba, oh wait he has the "last real ferrari", hmmm then not.....
if i have the money to buy a modena, and i prefer it over the z06 then im a girly-man, even if i like cars and i love drivin... WRONG....
buying expensive cars gives u status riiiiiight ??? right
then if i have the money, why buying a car that many people have? in this case the z06, why not buying a car that gives me exclusivity ???? yeah, they perform the same... but in the end its the z06 still a GM, u can argue how does the z06 does the same and all the thigs uve said, the answer to that: "who cares ???, mine is a ferrari" thats the deal... u can say whatever u want and it wont stop being a Ferrari and the vette wont stop being a "cheap" GM (wow that phrase is so philosophical)... as simple as that

[Toronto]

top end vette "beats" entry level ferrari 360,
top end vette vs. 360cs....... well you know that story easy win for the ferrari

this battle is so dumb, the vette is only a stand out winner in 1 place, price, that is it, nothing else... performance is equal like you said b4 RC...

and you (RC) should stop blaming ferrari for yuppies buying and wanting the car they build, they don't care who buys the low-end cars, it is the high-end ones (f50/enzo) that they keep for the real fans

don't hate the other part of the american population (50%rednecks/50%yuppies)

and a yuppie (if you know what the correct term means) isn't that bad, it is just the way people use it (like the word gay or fag), don't hate on the yuppies, hate on the younge urban snobs (mostly yuppies :lol: )

[RC45]

"who cares ???, mine is a ferrari" thats the deal...

Seems you have again confirmed the point about people buying purely on status..

:)

This isn't an argument - it appears to be a statement you made. :)

[bmagni]

"who cares ???, mine is a ferrari" thats the deal...

Seems you have again confirmed the point about people buying purely on status..

:)

This isn't an argument - it appears to be a statement you made. :)

my point is that all ends in that... thats the extra ferrari gives u... either if u buy it for pose or cause u like em

[HeilSvenska]

don't hate the other part of the american population (50%rednecks/50%yuppies)


American Population (5%rednecks/5%yuppies/90%non-citizens)

[HeilSvenska]

and you (RC) should stop blaming ferrari for yuppies buying and wanting the car they build, they don't care who buys the low-end cars, it is the high-end ones (f50/enzo) that they keep for the real fans


Nonsense. There is no doubt that there are enthusiast millionaires who enjoy driving Ferraris for fun like Frank Mountain, but you know most of those cars will live remainder of their lives inside a garage. High class snobs and self made millionaires are like yuppies.

And screw yuppies. and metrosexuals...which seem to be synonyms of each other. They ruin everything. Yuppies and their clothes...

And speaking of yuppies, you guys left out the biggest yuppie car company of all. Porsche. damn 911s everywhere.

Also Corvettes are not that much of yuppie cars. The convertable probably is, but most Corvette owners i've seen are over 55.

[SFDMALEX]

/\/\/\ MOst snobs are over 55 anyway :wink:

[Toronto]

and you (RC) should stop blaming ferrari for yuppies buying and wanting the car they build, they don't care who buys the low-end cars, it is the high-end ones (f50/enzo) that they keep for the real fans


Nonsense. There is no doubt that there are enthusiast millionaires who enjoy driving Ferraris for fun like Frank Mountain, but you know most of those cars will live remainder of their lives inside a garage. High class snobs and self made millionaires are like yuppies.

And screw yuppies. and metrosexuals...which seem to be synonyms of each other. They ruin everything. Yuppies and their clothes...

And speaking of yuppies, you guys left out the biggest yuppie car company of all. Porsche. damn 911s everywhere.

Also Corvettes are not that much of yuppie cars. The convertable probably is, but most Corvette owners i've seen are over 55.

most of the people i see driving the 911. and 360 are 50+ too. ever seen lost in translation.... "mid-life crisis. have you bought a porsche yet?" so everyone is throwing around this yuppie word, but the fact is most yuppies drive a bmw3/5, or a c-class benz.

[mindgam3]

RC45: I've never said ferraris aren't bought by yuppie wannbees but the people who design them are more concerned about performance and making it a ferrari than making it a posers car. Ferraris have always been snobs cars and most people who see people driving them think they're complete wankers which is mostly true like you said.

Just a side note, i followed a 355 spider most of the way home from my girlfriends early today and daaamn what a sound. It crept up behind me on some twisty country roads n then blasted me down this staright but manged to keep up with it going throught the villages until we got to the motorway where he floored it from the on ramp and i was right behind it in pure heaven, obviously in my lil clio that was pretty much the last i saw of it, wish i had my video cam tho :(

[Caps8419]

"And I guess you just comfirmed the snobb appeal... I guess exclusivity and oppulance are more important than performance ... yet another girly-man driver wannabe.. :P"


you just wait my friend, your little z0sux will be crying when the 430 hits the roads. how would the fact that im in school still and dont have access to a "performance" (and i use that loosly) car as yourself prove im a girly man driver wannabe? i bet i'd teach you a few things about racing, and no i dont mean burnouts and 1/4 mile drags your familiar with, i mean racing.

as to all the comments about yuppies vs... who ever buys a vette. yes unfourtunatly people who like to be flashy and rap stars will get a 360 because it has the name on it. just to say you own a ferrari. but there are people like myself and most others on this site who would like to own a ferrari not because of the name ( well, it helps) but because its a performance machine.

in my opinion the z06 could ahve been a good car if chevy wasnt making it. the interior still looks like a minivan. in my opinion the z06 is also bought by flashy people or those in a midlife crisis. the z06 just doesnt pull off that flash as weel as a ferrari.

moral of the story, fuck you rc45, ill kick your ass on the track :wink:
the z06 could have been a cool car and is still ( in my opinion) is as flashy as a 360. its just flashy to a different sort or people.

and yuppy stands for Young, Urban, Professional. i bet only like 5 of you knew that! j/k...

and thats y i can say ferrari kicks as and not be a poseur... except to maybe rc45 until i kick his ass in karting.

[abbor]

Corvette is a great car..
So is the 360..
And the 430 will be a great car!

Maybe the Z06 will beat the Ferrari at some tracks.. It's not impossible, and we know it happens. But I still want a Ferrari a 100 times over a Corvette..

That's the feeling most here have, and it can't be changed, so just stop arguing!

[RC45]

Corvette is a great car..
So is the 360..
And the 430 will be a great car!

Maybe the Z06 will beat the Ferrari at some tracks.. It's not impossible, and we know it happens. But I still want a Ferrari a 100 times over a Corvette..

That's the feeling most here have, and it can't be changed, so just stop arguing!

Feelings vs reality.

Except for a privilegded few - most will not be in the position to excute on these dreams and feelings.

And ironically - most of the wannabes that insist on the value of the snob appeal and exclusivity are in the "non-privileged' camp anyway.

But eventually you grow up and mature - and your caustic opinions of superiority based on the exclusive nature of possesions (real or dreamed of) is tempered. ;)

The rest grow up to be yuppie snobs and wannabes anyway. :)

[Caps8419]

nicely put... each car is in its own class and should not really be fairly compared. it would be niced if all of us could be those privilaged few... what a world that would be....

[HeilSvenska]

Yes. The world would be something close to Utopia if all the true car enthusiasts got the cars they deserve.

[ice]

Out of curiosity, whens the paris auto show where they unveil it to the public?

[HeilSvenska]

Le 25 Septembre d'année 2004

[RC45]

you just wait my friend, your little z0sux will be crying when the 430 hits the roads. how would the fact that im in school still and dont have access to a "performance" (and i use that loosly) car as yourself prove im a girly man driver wannabe? i bet i'd teach you a few things about racing, and no i dont mean burnouts and 1/4 mile drags your familiar with, i mean racing.


What makes you think I am a 1/4 driver.. :twisted:

Ever considered I may be just as much of a hardcore driver as you aspire to de...? ;)

[abbor]

Out of curiosity, whens the paris auto show where they unveil it to the public?



Google it! :roll:

Took me 30 sec to find it out, but you can do it yourself!

EDIT: Once again I didn't read all the posts after I found one stuid one, so I guess you didn't need to google.. But next time, please don't ask questions like these without searching!

[nejcdolinsek]

RC45, if you can't see why a 360 is a better car, think of it this way:

Imagine Ferrari is a Pfizer prescription medicine... a Corvette is an Indian Generic drug based on the Pfizer medicine... The generic drug may be just as good, but which one would you choose? :wink:

And, btw, I thought this thread is about the 430.

[RC45]

RC45, if you can't see why a 360 is a better car, think of it this way:

It's not a feeling - it is fact - Everytime I come across a Porsche TT on the street, it is a run for the money and the TT puts up a good fight and may runa way at the top etc etc.

Every 360 I come across ends up 10 bus lengths back and has been piloted by a Starbucks refugee... :P


Imagine Ferrari is a Pfizer prescription medicine... a Corvette is an Indian Generic drug based on the Pfizer medicine... The generic drug may be just as good, but which one would you choose? :wink:

The Indian generic everytime.

Buying the high dolloar drug simply funnels your funds to them. :)


And, btw, I thought this thread is about the 430.
Sure is - about pictures of it.. and how mediocre it is going to be when compared to it's newly arriving peers.. :P

You would think that for all the moeny and class and heritage and engineering that Ferrari could actually deliver a better car for the price/class.. ;)

[nejcdolinsek]

Sure is - about pictures of it.. and how mediocre it is going to be when compared to it's newly arriving peers..


Not very... especially when compared with any American car. And which "newly arriving peers" are coming out? A new Porsche Turbo? The car that looks like a Volkswagen beetle? Or perhaps a new Gallardo, considering its only been out for a year and a half?


The Indian generic everytime.

Buying the high dolloar drug simply funnels your funds to them.


Hmmmm.... right... :roll:

I guess you're right. Why would anyone want to buy brand name clothes when you can get a fake for a fraction of the price?? Almost as good but a lot cheaper! ---> Just like at K-mart!


Every 360 I come across ends up 10 bus lengths back and has been piloted by a Starbucks refugee...


And Corvette drivers are F1 world champions. And they have awesome taste. And they're smart, because instead of buying a $180,000 stock car, which also represents engineering excellence, racing pedegree, panache and happens to have an image like no other car company on earth, they can buy a $40,000 car with $100,000 worth of body kit, superchargers, nitros, etc.... and save thousands of $$$!!!! WHOEVER OWNS A CORVETTE IS A GENIOUS!!!

[RC45]

Sure is - about pictures of it.. and how mediocre it is going to be when compared to it's newly arriving peers..


Not very... especially when compared with any American car. And which "newly arriving peers" are coming out? A new Porsche Turbo? The car that looks like a Volkswagen beetle? Or perhaps a new Gallardo, considering its only been out for a year and a half?

Ford GT


I guess you're right. Why would anyone want to buy brand name clothes when you can get a fake for a fraction of the price?? Almost as good but a lot cheaper! ---> Just like at K-mart!

Typical new money response - you seem to think the world is impressed by how fancy your possesions are. :roll:

You again re-affirm the boutique nature of 360/430 customers.. ;)



Every 360 I come across ends up 10 bus lengths back and has been piloted by a Starbucks refugee...


And Corvette drivers are F1 world champions. And they have awesome taste. And they're smart, because instead of buying a $180,000 stock car, which also represents engineering excellence, racing pedegree, panache and happens to have an image like no other car company on earth, they can buy a $40,000 car with $100,000 worth of body kit, superchargers, nitros, etc.... and save thousands of $$$!!!! WHOEVER OWNS A CORVETTE IS A GENIOUS!!!
You appear a little angry to realise that a $40,000 car kicks the 360's ass from here to kingdom come and back... IF you put the $100,000 into a Z06 as some very wealthy punters have - because they were board with the performance of their euro-go-karts - you end up with a car that tops 250mph - does 0-60 in 3 s and the 1/4 mile in 9s @ 160mph... and can STILL pull 1+G in the handling dept. :D

So for the cost of the left Enzo fender,you have car that STILL destroys it and every other Euro-exotic.... :lol:

[SFDMALEX]

RC45, if you can't see why a 360 is a better car, think of it this way:

It's not a feeling - it is fact - Everytime I come across a Porsche TT on the street, it is a run for the money and the TT puts up a good fight and may runa way at the top etc etc.

Every 360 I come across ends up 10 bus lengths back and has been piloted by a Starbucks refugee... :P


Interesting because the 360 actually beats the TT on the top end, or lets say past the 1/4mile mark :roll:

[SFDMALEX]

Sure is - about pictures of it.. and how mediocre it is going to be when compared to it's newly arriving peers..


Not very... especially when compared with any American car. And which "newly arriving peers" are coming out? A new Porsche Turbo? The car that looks like a Volkswagen beetle? Or perhaps a new Gallardo, considering its only been out for a year and a half?

Ford GT


I guess you're right. Why would anyone want to buy brand name clothes when you can get a fake for a fraction of the price?? Almost as good but a lot cheaper! ---> Just like at K-mart!

Typical new money response - you seem to think the world is impressed by how fancy your possesions are. :roll:

You again re-affirm the boutique nature of 360/430 customers.. ;)



Every 360 I come across ends up 10 bus lengths back and has been piloted by a Starbucks refugee...


And Corvette drivers are F1 world champions. And they have awesome taste. And they're smart, because instead of buying a $180,000 stock car, which also represents engineering excellence, racing pedegree, panache and happens to have an image like no other car company on earth, they can buy a $40,000 car with $100,000 worth of body kit, superchargers, nitros, etc.... and save thousands of $$$!!!! WHOEVER OWNS A CORVETTE IS A GENIOUS!!!
You appear a little angry to realise that a $40,000 car kicks the 360's ass from here to kingdom come and back... IF you put the $100,000 into a Z06 as some very wealthy punters have - because they were board with the performance of their euro-go-karts - you end up with a car that tops 250mph - does 0-60 in 3 s and the 1/4 mile in 9s @ 160mph... and can STILL pull 1+G in the handling dept. :D

So for the cost of the left Enzo fender,you have car that STILL destroys it and every other Euro-exotic.... :lol:

Funny how you said the z06 and the 360 are on par not so long ago. They arent anymore? I thought your a genious :wink: Obviously not if you cant remeber what you said few posts ago :roll:
:D

[bmagni]

You appear a little angry to realise that a $40,000 car kicks the 360's ass from here to kingdom come and back... IF you put the $100,000 into a Z06 as some very wealthy punters have - because they were board with the performance of their euro-go-karts - you end up with a car that tops 250mph - does 0-60 in 3 s and the 1/4 mile in 9s @ 160mph... and can STILL pull 1+G in the handling dept.

So for the cost of the left Enzo fender,you have car that STILL destroys it and every other Euro-exotic....


and i call that the Exotic beater of the not so rich, or wannabes

[RC45]

Funny how you said the z06 and the 360 are on par not so long ago. They arent anymore? I thought your a genious :wink: Obviously not if you cant remeber what you said few posts ago :roll:
:D

You need to read more carefully - where did I say they are not on a par?

[RC45]

Interesting because the 360 actually beats the TT on the top end, or lets say past the 1/4mile mark :roll:

No it doesnt.. the 360 would be lucky to run passed about 182 or 183mph.. the 911TT will run to 190mph.

One day when you guys actually begin driving against these cars on the street you will begin seeing that Ferrari and Porsche do not hold exclusive stake on speed.. ;)

I wish you would understand how easily the 360 is beaten... ;)