Autocross = voided warranty...

[RC45]

After reading this crap it is no wonder Ferrari is skeeeered to provide test vehicles to magazines... they know they will break in 5 minutes.. ;)

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02612566

MICHAEL MILLER DIDN’T know it, but the drivetrain warranty was already void on his son’s new Mitsubishi Evolution before he even took the car in for service to his local Salt Lake City dealership.

Unbeknownst to Miller, Mitsubishi placed a lifetime warranty restriction on the engine, clutch and transmission in Miller’s Evo because the company discovered the car had been entered in a Sports Car Club of America autocross event a month earlier.

Miller said that about two weeks after entering the Evo in the SCCA event he heard bad noises emanating from the engine bay and took the car in for service. “The dealer performed a vehicle service inquiry and I was told there was a restriction placed on my file,” Miller says.

Bottom line: After entering the car in one SCCA event, Miller was left with a $7,000 bill for repairing two failed connecting rods and a blown turbocharger.

[T-Bird]

that kind of sucks but if you think about the fact that mitsubishi is in alot of trouble money wise at the moment I would kind of understand their reasoning. You have to be willing to pay the conseguences when you go out racing a car I'm sure this has happened with other companies aswell. It does suck but it wouldn't hurt him to get those parts upgraded anyway.

[RC45]

Well - even Porsche have jumped on this "deny warranty" band wagon...

The sad part, is that GM will void your warranty even if you decide to install their heavy duty parts just for street use.

[gottacatchup]

You really can't blame the auto makers for this. They all street cars are not going to be able to handle constant hard driving and its unreallistic for consumers to think that the manufacturer should replace their engine because they went out and blew it up.

[MercedeSChink]

yeah, this is old news eh!? sposedly, they have this searching program for the internet and also the national auto x sign ups and shit...when they find a mitsu, they mark it down...it really sux for the evo 8 drivers down in the states...

[RC45]

You really can't blame the auto makers for this. They all street cars are not going to be able to handle constant hard driving and its unreallistic for consumers to think that the manufacturer should replace their engine because they went out and blew it up.


Don't even try go there.

I battled head to head with GM - and finally got them to replace my engine. For the longest time they wanted to deny warranty simply because I have a 5 point harness in my car.

They didn't even have proof of me racing my car - which never happened.. and all the failures that occured were well known documented failures with factory advised replacements/repairs.

These guys are denying warranty for just participating in an event... not only if you arrive with a failure... but just having been participating.

This means if you attend an event in March - and they decide to black list you and you suffer a failure in Octobver they are then getting out of the warranty claim that really was not related to you track event.

Manufacturers are well known for doing what ever they can to get out of warranty repairs - especially if it is an inherent failure they failed to engineer for.

Combine that with how frail todays cars are and I think the days of increasing horsepower will soon end... simply because manufacturers (even Porsch and BMW and Mercdes and Ferrari etc) cut so many corners to save money - they have cars that "go fast for magazine tests" but can not survive medium use without breaking.

Think about it - you have a 450hp car that can do 0-60 in 4s and tops out at 190mph - yet the manufacturer wants to void the warrenty becuase you ecxeeded the speed limit and did a high RPM launch.

Bullshit - they are therefore only engineering the cars to be able warranteed for operation in the lowest 15% of the performance envelope.

What a cop out.

See the threasd about the dead Vanquish - and go hang out on vehicle specific forums to see just how badly todays performance cars are made.

You will be very shocked.

[gottacatchup]

Performance cars break more easily because the manufacturers are cutting corners to cut costs i agree with that and i also agree that most warrenties are bull and the dealers declare them void for no particular reason, like what happened to you.

But high performance engines are never going to be as durable as lower tuned versions. As manufacturers strive to gain every bit of bhp out of the engine as they can they put way to much strain on the internals of the engine and with hard or abusive driving the motor will fail. Its just not practicle for car companies to produce engines strong enough to withstand the amount of power they want them to produce.

[5vz-fe]

To be fair, a Ferrari will last in Track days event but will prolly break in autocross circuits. It is well known that AutoX beat up cars alot harsher than they do on Tracks due to the fact that many owners at slow corners go deep into the red zone, as well as not-so-smooth gear changes. Adding to that, u are constanting changing between 1-2, 2-1.....killing the sycros.... All these factors make cars take unnecessary wear.

[gottacatchup]

To be fair, a Ferrari will last in Track days event but will prolly break in autocross circuits. It is well known that AutoX beat up cars alot harsher than they do on Tracks due to the fact that many owners at slow corners go deep into the red zone, as well as not-so-smooth gear changes. Adding to that, u are constanting changing between 1-2, 2-1.....killing the sycros.... All these factors make cars take unnecessary wear.

Also you dont generate great speeds which is good for a novice driving but doesnt help you're car keep it's cool in the middle of a parking lot.

[graywolf624]

The sad part, is that GM will void your warranty even if you decide to install their heavy duty parts just for street use.

We've all seen how you drive. :lol:


It is well known that AutoX beat up cars alot harsher than they do on Tracks due to the fact that many owners at slow corners go deep into the red zone, as well as not-so-smooth gear changes

Not a lot harder, just different. Especially on different tracks. Go through rotors/pads/tires a hell of alot faster on the track. Depending on size of track the shifting might be the same thing(thinking some of those converted motorcycle tracks in the south). You have to remember.. autox lasts like 35 seconds... the track could last 25 mins.

Frankly, I think they need to do this to some extent to avoid feeding someones race habit or, especially on a turbo car, making up for someone who doesnt understand how high you can turn the boost up before you blow something.

That being said, going to one autox shouldnt be that point, and they certainly shouldnt market their cars for scca and such and then void warrenties for using them that way.

[Evo]

When I got my evo from the first day the dealer said I can't give you any type of warranty on the car.. I smiled and was happy with what I got.. Knock on wood. No major problems so far except.

1- Changed the clutch few thousand times already.
2- Changed all the syncro on the gear. :roll: .
I'm accully happy that they told me from the first day that their is no warranty on the evo.. Coz I was able to get it suped up much faster.. But Although I wished they had one coz the cost of replacing such parts is pretty much very expensive and I could of used it for something eles rather than the car it self.

And as some of you pointed out some manufacturers promote autocrossing or any other sport event like Audi. But some don't so what's the deal.?

[RC45]

That being said, going to one autox shouldnt be that point, and they certainly shouldnt market their cars for scca and such and then void warrenties for using them that way.

Exactly...

[SFDMALEX]

This is fucked. They make a sports car for what purpose? non-sports driving? This is just sad.

Anyone know if Ferrari does the same?

[RC45]

This is fucked. They make a sports car for what purpose? non-sports driving? This is just sad.

Anyone know if Ferrari does the same?

Well, this is Porsches stance..


“When it hits the track, all bets are off,” says Bob Carlson, Porsche Cars of North America spokesman.
I would imagine Ferraris wording would be very much the same....

[SFDMALEX]

This is fucked. They make a sports car for what purpose? non-sports driving? This is just sad.

Anyone know if Ferrari does the same?

Well, this is Porsches stance..


“When it hits the track, all bets are off,” says Bob Carlson, Porsche Cars of North America spokesman.
I would imagine Ferraris wording would be very much the same....

Just did a search and this is a quote that I found "The warranty of the Ferrari 360 Stradale is still applicable after a limited track event (= no 24 hours race but a gentlemen drivers race is ok) I do not see why a Porsche lost all waranty after half an hours track pleasure"


And I found a guy say on FerrariChat that Ferrari seems to be the only complany left that does not void warranty if used used on track. PHEWW! Thank God there is someone left who understands us.

And to confirm this is the fact that Ferrari Organized Ferrari days for many years. Last year it was at Spa I think. Previously it was at Muggelo.

[RC45]

Well -- I guess that's part of the mystique of owning a Ferrari then.

However - having said that, lots of Ferraris are never used in anger by their first owners (whom may have 5 or more super cars at their disposal) who then sells the car after a number of years and the next guy coming along may buy the car after the warranty expires.

But it is good news for those guys/gals who buy em new and start tracking them while they still have paper plates... ;)

[Tomerville]

That's an interesting story, I heard that Mitsubishi and Subaru weren't even waranting the clutches or drivetrain because they were expecting kids to be doing hard launches and in the process destroying them.

RC-Would taking a vehicle on a track day such as the 'Ring void the waranty you think?

[SFDMALEX]

However - having said that, lots of Ferraris are never used in anger by their first owners
... ;)

Used in anger? Not used at all lol :lol: Thats the sad part. They are not driven like they are supposed to be. Thats why I always admired Porsche, Lotus and Vette drivers, the fact that they actually drive...but then I think of the price difference, but its doesnt completly justify the fact that Ferraris are generaly not driven.

[RC45]

Thats why I always admired Porsche, Lotus and Vette drivers, the fact that they actually drive...but then I think of the price difference, but its doesnt completly justify the fact that Ferraris are generaly not driven.

Well - because some of these are so "cheap" and plentiful, regular working stiffs like myself can buy em - and then sometimes as their daily driver as well.

So they end up being used a lot.

The very high price of any new Ferrari normally means the folks affording it have so much disposable cash that the Ferrari is not normally their only car - and as such seldom gets used.

of course their are exceptions to this rule - our own bobafett is an example.

Wealthy enough to afford em - AND young enough to enjoy em.. ;) -- as well as the bloke who has put all those miles on his Enzo delivering gold chocolate roses to people.. :P

[RC45]

And as some of you pointed out some manufacturers promote autocrossing or any other sport event like Audi. But some don't so what's the deal.?

Well some manufactors know what their cars are able to take of abuse, others dont, and void the guaranties to keep their ass safe... :wink:

And this is no joke.

Using the Z06 as an example - the car that was engineered and tested is not the same car they ended up producing.

And if you have a look at how over the model years from 2001 through 2004 GM cut more and more corners to shave small amounts of the cost eher and there...

Sure they may have "improved" a shift fork here or a cluth plate there - but that was only because the '01's were destroying pieces like crazy.

It is easy to see in a side by side comparison of an '01 and and an ;04 the way they have "cheated" a little here and there with fastners and sealants and sound proofing etc... so who knows what other areas they shaved a few pennies off by having slightly lower specs for fastners and alloys etc.

There is no doubt that the engineers (from any company - Ford, GM, Audi etc) design a great car - then the the accountants and bean counters have em throttle back the specs to the cheapest possible level for profitable construction.

I mean you have got to wonder what the REAL story is behind those Porsche ceramic brakes that can't last 30 minutes on the track... surely the engineers wanted better than that for the car - but it would have probably never been cost effective.

Look at the cost of the Carrera GT - I think that is a good example of why we will never see super-quality in regular street cars - it ends up costing too damned much.

[SFDMALEX]

super-quality in regular street cars - it ends up costing too damned much.

I was curious how is the Vette in that departament? Regular GM dealrship visits just like the rest or is it more reliable then the rest of the higher end sports cars?

[T-Bird]

what about the Supercars like the CGT or SLR and all those others do they have those clauses in their warranties since they are built to beat the shit out of even though most of the owners don't but then again some do drive them at track events. Are those kind of cars exempt from those rules? How about MB in general since they really don't have any track type cars what with the automatics and what-not, that would be an excuse to buy an SL55-65 or the SLK55.

I know Ford holds events at tracks and drag strips around the States so I'm sure they don't have those clauses in their cars since they warranty Saleens and Roushes through Ford and the respective company aswell.

[RC45]

super-quality in regular street cars - it ends up costing too damned much.

I was curious how is the Vette in that department? Regular GM dealership visits just like the rest or is it more reliable then the rest of the higher end sports cars?

No more or less reliable than regular GM crap - and just as weak as the other high end sports cars.

You could take a new 6-speed off the lot, break it in and do 5 really enthusiastic launches and the clutch will feel toast.

Let the hydraulics get too hot and the clutch pedal will stay on the floor after the the next launch.

Drive enthusiastically through the woods backroads for a day and you end up with cracked rotors.. Don't ask how I know.. ;)

The shift forks and synchros are very susceptible to "rough" drivers.

I have never really had a problem - but then I basically granny-shift really fast, so the wear on my shift forks and synchros is a lot less than the guys who power-shift a lot.

Power shift too wild in a 6-speed Vette and you are walking home... ;)

If you let your rearend oil get too low/hot you are gonna roast the rear end.

My ex-dealer failed to fill the rear-end after it was all removed for some major surgery one day - and 3 weeks later they were replacing it as it basically "wore out". Sounded like I was driving a straight-cut non-synchro racing transmission the whine was so loud. Sounded way cool slowing down and looking over to the ricer next to me - I know he heard the exhaust AND the gear whine and just looked ahead sheepishly and made a right turn... ;)

The bottom and top end of the '01's is pretty robust - but there are quite a number of guys with '03 and '04's that have dropped valves and thrown rods after just a cam swap - something that is almost unheard of with the '01's and '02'swith cam swaps. So they must have shaved something off somewhere from '02 to '03.

All in all, if you baby a Vette it will last forever - use it even remotely like it was intended and parts just break wear out instantly.

[T-Bird]

My ex-dealer failed to fill the rear-end after it was all removed for some major surgery one day - and 3 weeks later they were replacing it as it basically "wore out". Sounded like I was driving a straight-cut non-synchro racing transmission the whine was so loud. Sounded way cool slowing down and looking over to the ricer next to me - I know he heard the exhaust AND the gear whine and just looked ahead sheepishly and made a right turn... ;)


Wow that sucks they fixed out of their pockets though right? If they did then you had a sweet ass sounding car for a while and then it was fixed at no cost.

Your lucky that's all that happened to your's I had to follow a friend to his GM dealer to get his GTP fixed about 2 years ago and when we got there in the shop was a Z06 off the end of the lift, luckily on the ground but it didn't look good the Snap-On tool box it hit looked in better shape.

Worse thing I had was I had my car in for an ABS computer problem and they let a brake line rub on the rotor and literally blew up when I hit the brakes the next day= new paintjob on fender and new wheel (painted aluminum) along with the new line.

[SFDMALEX]

Shit :? I thought only Ferraris brake :lol:


I guess a good Swedish build supercar will last you forever :lol: Koeennnenssiseeeg anyone?

[T-Bird]

you spelled it wrong I think there are 5 more n's and about 6 more g's :lol:

[SFDMALEX]

you spelled it wrong I think there are 5 more n's and about 6 more g's :lol:

HEHE. I think we should ask Clarkson for reasurance....he knows the right spelling :P

[tifneedle208]

He blew the frickin turbo after ONE race?!

[graywolf624]

Sounded like I was driving a straight-cut non-synchro racing transmission the whine was so loud.

Richmond?

That was what was in the camaro.. You can hear the gear whine and the exhaust from 3 blocks away.. Too bad I sold that car..