Fastest Production Ford Ever

[mindgam3]

http://www.carpages.co.uk/ford/ford_images/ford_2005_gt_15_06_04.jpg

Earlier this week the new Ford GT 205mph top speed was been verified at the Nardo test track; 4mph faster than the original, becoming the fastest production ford ever

[RC45]

This pretty much has thrown the gauntlet for GM - think they will respond or just roll out another Aztec... ?? ;)

[No.1]

This is great news :!: :!: :!: :!:

i am so Happy :D

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Oh well... i guess that is pretty special for Ford.
They went to 202mph in Car magazine a month or two ago, but it was obviously unverifiable(on an autobahn with no GPS), and it was only the cars speedo that gave the figure :D

[T-Bird]

well that's a fast car now isn't it.
GM will have to really work to match this one won't they or will they even try?

[Vansquish]

Um...this is a bit behind the curve, that data was out 2 to 3 weeks ago. If you check Fast-autos.net on a regular basis, they post stuff like that almost every week.

Anyway, yes, incredible, great news to see that Ford for once in the last 20 years hasn't over- but rather under-estimated the potential of one of their vehicles. Remember also that the 205mph was recorded on the Nardo Bowl...which, as is the nature of the bowl, limits top speed because of the curvature. On a flat road, it should gain somewhere between 5 and 15mph in top speed. Think of that, somewhere between 210 and 220mph...that's Enzo Territory.

[graywolf624]

GM will have to really work to match this one won't they or will they even try?

uhh.. why? why does gm have to make a limited edition super car.

I still argue that supercars have no positive influence on sales(especially isnt going to change anyones mind about ford) and they are generally money losers.

What ford should have done is make a good car for the mid to high level sports car or sedan. They have nothing there. The mustang, while a great car, isnt a handler. what else do they have sporty to compete with gms corvette, gto, cts-v, opel speedster, (somewhat ownership, still get profits) subaru wrx sti, saab 9-3x(the saab wrx, I think thats the numbers), the upcoming solstice.

The only thing I see in fords lineup thats sporty comes from mazda, and many of them have a little too many quirks to appeal to mainstream individuals.(Im ignoring aston martin which is a sorta seperate... and also not mid level.. aka things between 30000-80000, where most cars are sold numbers wise. Meanwhile, the jags are overpriced tauruses...)

Ford needs to get it in gear to pull themselves out of this debt before they go bankrupt. They are still teetering on the brink and yet I see no forward progress(I mean come on, the only sporty cars they can give us either cost over 100000 or cant handle worth crap). Meanwhile, gm seems to be heading in the right direction for the time being.

I attest that the ford gt will sell no extra fords. They are all sold so none will sit on a dealership, and even if they did the principle is to get them to come test drive one car and get them to buy the more expensive one... not vice versa.

[Vansquish]

It's the 9-2x actally grawolf624...but yes, I agree with you, the fact is that Ford doesn't have enough mainstream production models with good enough performance to match many of their competitors, including GM. I wouldn't go so far as to call Jags overpriced tauruses, as that really isn't the truth at all, except for the XK8 (which is still based on the XJS platform) and the X-type (loosely based on the Mondeo) there isn't very much platform-sharing going on, certainly not with anything as mundane and terrible as the Taurus.

Mazda is (as far as my understanding goes) in the process of developing a TT, 4wd version of the Mazda 6 to compete with the Evos, Imprezas and Saabs of the world. The RX7 is due out in a couple of years and the Miata is still the only true sportscar at that price level that is still available in America (neglecting the MR2 which doesn't really deserve to be mentioned), and the S2000, which is priced a bit higher and closer to the Z's and RX8s on the market. At the moment, GM doesn't have a competitor for the Miata, though later this year or in '05 we should see the Solstice I suppose. The CTS-V's competitor within Ford would have to be the S-type R, which, while good looking is too heavy and equipped with too slow a transmission to be as good a car as it should be. Of course within the next year or so we'll see the AMV8, which should compete head-to-head with the Porsche 997 and cars of its class.

GM is in a bit of a hotseat at the moment too, as the GTO, while attractive in a subdued kind of way, and also a decent performer is NOT selling well at all. It just doesn't have the looks to match its performance nor its heritage, and buyers have been telling GM that for nearly a year now. The Corvette however, remains as always the best car for the money in the US, and the Mustang remains the original pony car, affordable with decent performance and good looks, even if it doesn't perform the same kind of pirouettes that the Vette can at the skidpad nor turn out the same kinds of lap times.

[T-Bird]

well Graywolf the GTO and The Cobra are considered Competitors many magazines have compared the 2 cars and they always come down to opinion because the numbers are soo close so they do have that competition.

[HoboPie]

Um...this is a bit behind the curve, that data was out 2 to 3 weeks ago. If you check Fast-autos.net on a regular basis, they post stuff like that almost every week.

Anyway, yes, incredible, great news to see that Ford for once in the last 20 years hasn't over- but rather under-estimated the potential of one of their vehicles. Remember also that the 205mph was recorded on the Nardo Bowl...which, as is the nature of the bowl, limits top speed because of the curvature. On a flat road, it should gain somewhere between 5 and 15mph in top speed. Think of that, somewhere between 210 and 220mph...that's Enzo Territory.

Almost, but the Enzo did 220 at Nardo so.......

[graywolf624]

well Graywolf the GTO and The Cobra are considered Competitors many magazines have compared the 2 cars and they always come down to opinion because the numbers are soo close so they do have that competition.

On a track the gto would out handle the cobra easily. Its also less expensive. It also has a great handling potential. It also has a better interior.
They are 2 different types of cars anyway.

I think most of the problem with gto sales is related to asshole dealers(they are all price gouging/not allowing test drives) and the realization that the next years gto has already been announced to have more power and the traditional hood scoop.


wouldn't go so far as to call Jags overpriced tauruses, as that really isn't the truth at all, except for the XK8 (which is still based on the XJS platform) and the X-type (loosely based on the Mondeo) there isn't very much platform-sharing going on, certainly not with anything as mundane and terrible as the Taurus.


More then your aware of apparently.. The xtype shares its chasis with the contour and engine with the taurus. The stype is basically a lincoln ls. As you said "XK8 (which is still based on the XJS platform)". How many more cars do they have, oh thats right, thats the whole lineup.. Its all shared! Hell, I havent even started on the interior. I will give ford credit, they improved jags horried reliability, but at what cost. They've become something you buy for the name rather then their luxury or performance.


Mazda is (as far as my understanding goes) in the process of developing a TT, 4wd version of the Mazda 6 to compete with the Evos, Imprezas and Saabs of the world. The RX7 is due out in a couple of years and the Miata is still the only true sportscar at that price level that is still available in America (neglecting the MR2 which doesn't really deserve to be mentioned), and the S2000, which is priced a bit higher and closer to the Z's and RX8s on the market. At the moment, GM doesn't have a competitor for the Miata, though later this year or in '05 we should see the Solstice I suppose. The CTS-V's competitor within Ford would have to be the S-type R, which, while good looking is too heavy and equipped with too slow a transmission to be as good a car as it should be.

While I like the rx8 and rx7, they are both fairly quirky. Same wih the miata. None of those cars would I consider a normal type of sports car (especially when one of them has 4 doors), they each are kind of quirky offering something that appeals to a specific type of customer. Furthermore, the miata is edging up in price slowly. Hopefully the solstice will breath new life into the stagnated miata line. As for the 6 awd. I'm starting to think the rumours wont be true. They certainly need something like that out there.

If you build it, they will come.

[nthfinity]

Um...this is a bit behind the curve, that data was out 2 to 3 weeks ago. If you check Fast-autos.net on a regular basis, they post stuff like that almost every week.

Anyway, yes, incredible, great news to see that Ford for once in the last 20 years hasn't over- but rather under-estimated the potential of one of their vehicles. Remember also that the 205mph was recorded on the Nardo Bowl...which, as is the nature of the bowl, limits top speed because of the curvature. On a flat road, it should gain somewhere between 5 and 15mph in top speed. Think of that, somewhere between 210 and 220mph...that's Enzo Territory.

Almost, but the Enzo did 220 at Nardo so.......

the word at ford is that the GT will hit 212mph... at least initially, and after the break-in period, even faster.

dyno results have shown after 5000 miles, the crank is making an incredible 593 hp...

as far as dufesus saying "the enzo did 220" the enzo isnt exactly in the competetion with the GT... lets argue the GT vs. upcoming F420?? to be unvieled shortly. im sure Ferrari dont want any car to encroach on Enzo territory immediately, im afraid.

so really, the only cars by the performance numbers that match, or best the GT are 3 times more expensive.

[PaulGT2164]

GM wont release anything to compete with the Ford GT, they are not that crazy and exciting. GM is kinda bland. the only exception is the GTO,Solstice, and the CTS-V, and none of those are crazy like the Ford GT. the craziest GM has gotten so far is the SSR, and that sucks.

[graywolf624]

GM is kinda bland. the only exception is the GTO,Solstice, and the CTS-V,

The vette is bland?
That new saab wrx is bland?


Realizing that the cts v is part of the "v-series" to quote the project lead, Im not concerned about there mid level cars. Where gm needs to wake up is the economy market (seperate market that shouldnt matter to us car enthusiasts though is important from profit stand point.. Unless your like some civic fans... :lol: ). Ford is trying to fix the wrong one in my oppinion(the ultra luxury).

[PaulGT2164]

"The vette is bland?
That new saab wrx is bland? "

when compared to the Ford GT , why yes they are

the Ford GT is a "Halo Car" they know they will lose money, they are not targeting much of anyone, and they know that if they make a car like the GT it is gonna bring in a ton of publicity and enhance their image

GM hasnt done anything to radical, especially in comparison to what other car manufacturers are doing

GM needs to wake up on economy cars, i agree, but that wont happen, they sell eough of the crappy ass ones. GM hasnt significantly changed its thinking on anything recently, the SSR is a joke, the SS versions of the montecarlo, and impalas are laughable. They need to get off their asses and pull a Dodge/Chrystler, the Magnum, SRT-4, Pacifica, PT Cruiser, Crossfire, are all better than their american compitition, you may not like them, but people are definately buying them, and talking about them. the last thing i heard alot about at GM was the Vette redesign, and all that press faded pretty fast...

the Saab "wrx" yeah its bland, GM crappified the Saab brand. what was once known for odd little quirky ugly cars, is now unoriginally cookie cutter cars that dont stand out much, just the same way Ford has molested Jag

maybe the solstice will sell well and GM will once again make cool cars, but for now...i dont see that happening

but kuddos for Ford and the GT, and the new mustang, they are thinking, and they will reap the benefits, like Chystler/Dodge is now

[graywolf624]

the Ford GT is a "Halo Car" they know they will lose money, they are not targeting much of anyone, and they know that if they make a car like the GT it is gonna bring in a ton of publicity and enhance their image

Im not sure that a halo car will bring in more publicity and buyers.. its ford.. not some new car maker.. everyone already has a set in stone oppinion of them.. and its becuase of the poor quality of their current regular people offerings.. thats the problem. Hell most people wont even recognize it as ford. Halo cars don't work when your beating a brand that most people have set there opinions died in the wool on.


And I cant believe your targeting salon cars as good.. The pt cruiser.. I mean dear lord man.. can you get more pop music then that...


PT cruisers are still minivans and they always will be.. the neon srt4 has the reliability of a dead pet.. The magnum is ugly.. and the crossfire is an overweight hunk of junk. If thats what you want cars to be, then I want no part of it.

[PaulGT2164]

"And I cant believe your targeting salon cars as good.. The pt cruiser.. I mean dear lord man.. can you get more pop music then that... "
"PT cruisers are still minivans and they always will be.. the neon srt4 has the reliability of a dead pet.. The magnum is ugly.. and the crossfire is an overweight hunk of junk. If thats what you want cars to be, then I want no part of it"

i didnt say i liked them, i just said they have done good things for the companies image and sales

i havent heard of any reliability probs with the SRT-4s yet, we have a few guys that run them and they are solid...hrmm

technically PT cruisers are neons, but yeah they are similiar to minivans

the magnum is ugly, but its a V8 - RWD car...and thats a step foward

[5vz-fe]

I heard the GTO isn't selling quite well. Does anyone know if that's true?

The Saab WRX is a mistake and so is that Saab SUV....everyone know what's the car under the skin and I think most ppl won't pay 20% premium just for a better interior and front end.

[graywolf624]

havent heard of any reliability probs with the SRT-4s yet, we have a few guys that run them and they are solid...hrmm

I've heard of quite a few.. though not as bad as the evos.. I wouldnt touch a mitsubishi evo with a 10 foot pole(if anyones been paying attention, theyve been blowing motors left and right in both amateur and professional competitions).


the magnum is ugly, but its a V8 - RWD car...and thats a step foward

Yeah but as opposed to gms current plans to make almost all their sedans rwd its no big deal.

[PaulGT2164]

"Yeah but as opposed to gms current plans to make almost all their sedans rwd its no big deal."

well dodge/chryster jumped on the band wagon first as far as american cars go, and that gave them the advantage

but im glad its going that way, its best for american cars to be RWD

[graywolf624]

heard the GTO isn't selling quite well. Does anyone know if that's true?


I think most of the problem with gto sales is related to asshole dealers(they are all price gouging/not allowing test drives) and the realization that the next years gto has already been announced to have more power and the traditional hood scoop.


Total sale numbers so far are 3,687 for the first six months

[graywolf624]

well dodge/chryster jumped on the band wagon first as far as american cars go, and that gave them the advantage


cts-v?

[PaulGT2164]

i forget about the CTS-V......but it wasnt mainstream advertised like the crossfire and the magnum, and it didnt create the stir that the magnum and the crossfire has, plus that people dont really think of caddy as mainsteam like they do dodge/chrystler

the new GTO is bland, it looks like a GrandPrix with a better butt, thats prolly hampering sales

[graywolf624]

the new GTO is bland, it looks like a GrandPrix with a better butt, thats prolly hampering sales

I disagree.. when the ass wipe dealer told me they wanted to charge me 5000 over msrp and I couldnt have test drive unless we were at last steps.. I told him to take a hike. I've seen this reiterate by many people. Ive also repeatedly heard gm say the car will get the hsp boost and hood scoops for 2005. Why buy now if itll improve..

Try this forum for a better articulated statement of my beliefs:
http://www.newagegto.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1905

the looks might hurt a little.. but I dont think thats all of it.

[PaulGT2164]

me and my friends mistake the GTO for grand prixs all the time till they get closer, i dont see the reasoning behind not putting a hoodscoop on it from the get go, thats stupid...they shoulda made it less bland, it would sold better, at least it performs well

[graywolf624]

crossfire

the crossfirewould fall under the same category as the vette or camaro or mustang. The magnum is where things start to change. that and the 300m.

Anyway.. They make that new fugly 300m down the road from here. If thats the direction chrysler wants to go then they need to do some rethinking. That thing is so ugly. What normal person is going to buy a car that looks like a cheese wedge?

[PaulGT2164]

well they are having good sales, so obviously more than you think , there are 6 of them in my area which is small

the SRT line, the magnum, and the crossfire has changed chrystler/dodge's image, for the better, and their sales have reflected that, regardless of if you or i like them, the fact still remains

"the crossfirewould fall under the same category as the vette or camaro or mustang. The magnum is where things start to change. that and the 300m."

they dont make the camaro anymore, and by price its not in the same category as the mustang, and i dont see a crossfire buyer looking at vettes and vice versa, they vette buyers are looking for high performance than the crossfires

the people who buy crossfires are looking for a head turner

[graywolf624]

the people who buy crossfires are looking for a head turner

I guess I can give you that.. Head turners smack in the face of everything I stand for as a car enthusiast. Must resist hurling explitives at dodge and vw.. and of course motor trend for encouraging it.


they dont make the camaro anymore, and by price its not in the same category as the mustang, and i dont see a crossfire buyer looking at vettes and vice versa, they vette buyers are looking for high performance than the crossfires

I meant in terms of the rwd not being a new bandwagon. not the type of cars. sorry for the confusion.

[T-Bird]

havent heard of any reliability probs with the SRT-4s yet, we have a few guys that run them and they are solid...hrmm

I've heard of quite a few.. though not as bad as the evos.. I wouldnt touch a mitsubishi evo with a 10 foot pole(if anyones been paying attention, theyve been blowing motors left and right in both amateur and professional competitions).

Well most of the SRT-4's and EVO's are blowing up because the young rich kids who buy them beat the shit out of them the instant they leave the dealership and don't know how to drive anyway.

[number77]

special, blue devil, scca liscense required for purchase...

[gottacatchup]

When you take into consideration Ford's truck line they aren't doing so bad. And even thought the mustang isn't a true sports car it sells and sells well. The Mustang Cobra is ford's only real affordable sports car and it isn't that great. It's been losing comparison tests to all sorts of other cars including, the RX-8, G35 coupe, and GTO.

Of course GM will always have the corvette and i dont think ford really wants to even try to compete against GM in that catagory. If Ford really wanted to compete they should make the Shelby Cobra Concept released earlier this year a production car.

Likewise I doubt GM wants to try and compete with the GT. They realise that they don't need a limited run supercar to make money or get their name out there. Considering they own many of the major auto makers in the US they just don't need it. They also dont have a classic racer to resurrect, other than the GTO.

[mindgam3]

The GT is supposed to compete with the gallardo, 360, 911, F430 etc. It may have the top speed edge on all these cars but has yet to be proven on handling etc, this is where i feel it may be let down compared to the competition, we'll just have to see....

[gottacatchup]

The GT is supposed to compete with the gallardo, 360, 911, F430 etc. It may have the top speed edge on all these cars but has yet to be proven on handling etc, this is where i feel it may be let down compared to the competition, we'll just have to see....

In a recent Car and Driver comparison the GT beat both the 911 GT3 and the 360 CS, proving it has power and handling in spades.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=7565&page_number=1

[T-Bird]

crossfire

300m.

Anyway.. They make that new fugly 300m down the road from here. If thats the direction chrysler wants to go then they need to do some rethinking. That thing is so ugly. What normal person is going to buy a car that looks like a cheese wedge?

First of all it's the Chrysler 300C not M and I think the new 300C and Magnum are sweet looking rides they have the hotrod look going for them with the chop top look and big wheels with power to boot.

[graywolf624]

EVO's are blowing up because the young rich kids who buy them

Actually no, I contest the evo is an unreliable piece of garbage. You might be right on the srt-4.
I know several evo owners and professional drivers blowing those engines.


They also dont have a classic racer to resurrect, other than the GTO.

saab rally cars?
They still have the corvette and cadilacs so that rules them out.
GMs race cars have been traditionally done by dealers or other individuals though.


First of all it's the Chrysler 300C not M and I think the new 300C and Magnum are sweet looking rides they have the hotrod look going for them with the chop top look and big wheels with power to boot.

Very few people agree with you, including myself. I should know, as I said they make the piece of crap 3 miles from my house. I've never met anyone here that thinks it looks good.
The big wheels arent a performance option, only very few people like the chopped roof, and it has a front clip only a mother could love.

[PaulGT2164]

"Well most of the SRT-4's and EVO's are blowing up because the young rich kids who buy them beat the shit out of them the instant they leave the dealership and don't know how to drive anyway."

i agree, i have several friends/customers who drive srt-4s , and we havent had a hiccup outta them, and they see regular track abuse

"Actually no, I contest the evo is an unreliable piece of garbage"

thats cause the american market is new to the EVO we havent had the tuning and aftermarket support other countries have had since it was created, as american tuners/racers get used to tuning and modding the EVO their reliability will increase, the EVO is an awesome car, we just dont know what to do with it yet, this is proved by the japanese tuner who are getting reliability outta high hp modded EVOs

"I think the new 300C and Magnum are sweet looking rides they have the hotrod look going for them with the chop top look and big wheels with power to boot. "

i agree here too, but i have a wide taste in cars

[graywolf624]

thats cause the american market is new to the EVO we havent had the tuning and aftermarket support other countries have had since it was created, as american tuners/racers get used to tuning and modding the EVO their reliability will increase, the EVO is an awesome car, we just dont know what to do with it yet, this is proved by the japanese tuner who are getting reliability outta high hp modded EVOs


Evos blowing up left and right: http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?s=a35210ec2cb6946a432d8388e8187ecb&threadid=16230&highlight=evo+engine+failures
most of the cars in otc having engine/ transmission/ ring problems.
Brake warping issues.
Main bearing:http://www.nsxfiles.com/otc_2004_day1.htm
Transmission problems going into 2nd and 5th at high rpm.
Not to mention evo not honoring warrenty claims if you even autocross a little. :roll:
http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=

[PaulGT2164]

"Evos blowing up left and right: http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?s=a35210ec2cb6946a432d8388e8187ecb&threadid=16230&highlight=evo+engine+failures
most of the cars in otc having engine/ transmission/ ring problems.
Brake warping issues.
Main bearing:http://www.nsxfiles.com/otc_2004_day1.htm
Transmission problems going into 2nd and 5th at high rpm.
Not to mention evo not honoring warrenty claims if you even autocross a little.
http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code="

i know i read those sites as well, but look at the other side of the world where the evo has been there for years and years and years...they dont have those problems. the american market hasnt figured out how to properly set up and tune an EVO yet, no big deal, as we learn to, the reliability will increase, its the same as any new car that comes over, there is a learning curve, and for the first few years people are gonna break them, blow them up, and trash them, till we get the experience needed, it was the same thing when people started making high HP civics (the real fast civics, not rice) and the DSMs and the turbo toyotas....the first few years sucked cause they were blowing them up, and trashing trannies, but look now, the american tuners have figured it out, and now we see 600hp daily driven civics (look at the pro-am import drag class) and other imports pushing 600+ hp reliably, the same will happen with the EVO, for the next couple years its gonna suck, but then when the tuners/racers figure them out it will be better, like i said this happens with every new engine/platform that is modified and raced....it takes time

Mitsu isnt the only manufacturer that viods warranty claims for participating in "competitive events"

[fabro_s]

Well im glad now we have a fast american supercar, whats the speed of a saleen S7?

and by the way chevy and chrysler doesnt have a top speed of 202 mph in a car isnt it?

[graywolf624]

and by the way chevy and chrysler doesnt have a top speed of 202 mph in a car isnt it?

not far off, but not quite. Both have cars in the 180-190 range.

*Really doesnt see the point of top speed, its useless anywhere but an oval.

[nthfinity]

i misquoted the GT's top straight speed... its supposed to be 214mph...

of course, it depends if its a warm, or cool day, and if its a warm day, then low humidity

[DMbaseball1604]

That's amazing...I can't wait to see one! :D