Why can't the GM F-body compete with imports?

[dsm4g63]

Why did the F-body die out? In of my opinon pplz that like to modify cars like to do conversions with different headlight and taillights .If GM would make a nice muscle that has an american twist to keep up with styling they just might be able to keep mustange in there place cuz there still cuz mustangs are still around and they look good in saleen form?

What about the fact that some pplz don't like having there car look someone elses.GM should look what they can do to make an irrestable alooking V_8 at a price range from 15-30k on different models.If a import can do it why can't a domestic ?

[T-Bird]

What are you talking about the F-body cars shouldn't be classified with rice rockets ever! the styling of the car was actually really nice the problem was that they never advertized the cars so they sort of fell out of the spot light and led to their eventual demise. And all those people putting rice shit on their Mustangs and Camaros should be taken out back and be shot or atleast have their knees bashed in. There is no need to put altezza's and black widow body kits on american muscle cars.

BTW you have some shitty grammar man.

[peacenriot69]

Good point Dsm, for a while i have wondered the same thing, it seems americans are more apt to hold on to automobile conservatisim as opposed to the Europeans. There are no real exotic looking american cars, when most people refer to American muscle cars they are the cars of old; the cargers, shelby mustangs camaro SS, 442's and so on , not really anything notable in the last 20 years, Mustang has been a long running model of ford, i do like the new mustangs giving reminiscence to the 69 nose style, but its RETRO not new its something rethought of. The only other notable American car as far as exotic looks are concerned is a GT 40 and that car is just a rancid pork chop. Im hoping to see more agressive styling that sets these cars out from the rest of the pack, we can generate performance with some acceptable looks, but im waiting for the wow car

[DanielW]

there's pently of gay bodykits and spoilers for the f-bodies. that's not the reason they died out. mustangs are much more popular with teens, especially the v6 versions. They look good, sporty and are fairly cheap.

You saying that the f-bodies died because of no bodykits, is like me saying that mitsubishi is getting out of US, is because they didn't offer a v8 option for the evo8.

[nthfinity]

well, i think there are some of the most un-informed remarks ive ever read regarding the F body, and the SN95 fox, withstanding a few...

next im going to read 'american cars cant turn, just go straight' :wink: :roll: :lol:

the Camaro/Trans am died because of lackluster sales. the lackluster sales happened due to poor marketing, and regretebly high pricetag. for that reason, i fear the monaro (GTO) wont last long... not because the taillights didnt look 'exotic/gay'

oh, and not including supercar exotic manufacturers... what is exotic looking about a renault clio, or a fiat panda :lol:

im not saying i wouldn't mind having the clio v6 :wink:

[T-Bird]

exactly like I said they didn't advertise the Camaro/firebirds well or at all causing the demise. oh yeah why is the Ford GT a rancid Pork Chop?

[blah]

I dont see how they can beat import when the RX-7, 3000GT, Supra, 300ZX, Prelude, Integra, The Real Eclipse, and some other cars im sure i forgot are all dead, and most died before the F-Body died in 2002. So your argument has holes. You cant beat an Original, thats why those imports couldnt beat the F-Bodies, but thats also why the F-Body couldnt beat the Mustang.

[DR.GONZO]

I love the f-body!

[graywolf624]

Here is the inside word from someone who has talked with the people responsible in gm for the camaro and firebird projects.

They were making money the last few years but hadnt for a few years before that (partly because they chose to upgrade performance rather then styling.). The car sold 60 percent v8s and only 40 percent v6s. GM refused to sell the v6s to rental car companies. As such sales stayed around 80000 a year. Anyway, 2002 was the expiration for the UAW workers contract for that factory and gm wanted to close the plant. As part of their contract only UAW could build the camaro at this location until 2007. Right now, there is quite an internal push for the project. I am unable to get a definitive when from my sources but I have gotten a yes its comming back, and a time of year. It will be released in August, which corresponds to the date the first one flew off the assembly line and the last one did on same day. If I had to place money, it would be on 2007 or 2008.

[dsm4g63]

hey guys my bad on the grammar i submitted this by accident with out checkin everything

I'm not fake or anything but i like domestics imports and dtm's (euro's)

I like F-bodies but I would want one too look better than soem imports pplz crave. I don't want to have to spend 50k to by a corvette or the new gto If GM can make the new gto and corvette and the soltice good lookin cars inside and out they need to keep it up with there lower v-8 models u can still have have a american sting that tear up the pavement! :fist:

WHAT ABOUT THE FUCKIGN MARKETING FEATURE V-8 STYLING IN MORE COMMERICIALS AND MOVIES LIKE THAT NEW MOVIE WITH GTO AND I KNOW EVERYBODY REMEMBER vIPER!

[dsm4g63]

blah youre pretty right about this won You cant beat an Original

but u can beat an an old idea and think of a better one don't leave devleopment and research out of the loop and can really benfit and close the gaps on the flaws

[nthfinity]

Here is the inside word from someone who has talked with the people responsible in gm for the camaro and firebird projects.

They were making money the last few years but hadnt for a few years before that (partly because they chose to upgrade performance rather then styling.). The car sold 60 percent v8s and only 40 percent v6s. GM refused to sell the v6s to rental car companies. As such sales stayed around 80000 a year. Anyway, 2002 was the expiration for the UAW workers contract for that factory and gm wanted to close the plant. As part of their contract only UAW could build the camaro at this location until 2007. Right now, there is quite an internal push for the project. I am unable to get a definitive when from my sources but I have gotten a yes its comming back, and a time of year. It will be released in August, which corresponds to the date the first one flew off the assembly line and the last one did on same day. If I had to place money, it would be on 2007 or 2008.


yes, ive speculated this as well... i just have only spoken with a few engineers in GM, usually from the proving grounds, which were on other projects at the time. good to here some more infos always.

and, dsm... im still unsure what your argument is.
cant beat an original muscle car from the 60's compared to today? well, as much as i love muscle cars from the 60's... lets look at the developments, research, and implementation of design that have come along
engine:
now engines dont generally need a rebuild after just 100,000 miles
emmissions:
well, we are going faster then ever, quicker... while complying with standards
handling:
immensely improved, check
brakes:
incredibly better! 4 wheel disc, optional ABS...

there are a lot of things which have changed over the last 40 years.
classics, are unfortuately, much harder to run everyday when contrasted to a modern muscle car.

[espen]

I think the F-body concept is good and deserves to live on, but the actual cars were stinkers. Even "my" (borrowed) '91 model facelift Trans-Am felt way outdated back in 1992 - too heavy, too creaky, huge axel tramp and weak brakes, horrible horrible interior and absolutely uncomfortably ugly dashboard.

Yet look at how good and popular an S14a 200SX or big-engined BMW 3-series coupees are - surely, if GM were to build a competent rwd at the same size, and stick in a 4.6 Northstar, 6-speed and some decent brakes then it would be a bargain at GM prices. Then, if they could sort out the handling, avoid horrendous looks and fit an interior that looks like it belongs in this century, they might just have a winner.

However I'd look to Daimler-Chrysler to be able to get this right, base it on the C platform, tone down the "were Chrysler so we have to be different" styling (nee Copperhead) add a large low cost 24V older Merc or 32V V8 and hey presto! Low cost 500E anyone? :P

[graywolf624]

I think the F-body concept is good and deserves to live on, but the actual cars were stinkers. Even "my" (borrowed) '91 model facelift Trans-Am felt way outdated back in 1992 - too heavy, too creaky, huge axel tramp and weak brakes, horrible horrible interior and absolutely uncomfortably ugly dashboard.

True the fbodies were never big on ride quality. That being said that 91 was one of the last of the third gens. Not to mention the damn thing was car of the year not long before that and was rated as one of the best handling cars of the time in iroc form at .91 skid pad. They've always been performance ahead of look or ride quality. That is exactly why they were so cheap. Very few cars throughout history have taken that route. Most of those cars never succeeded..
(Note the mustang didnt take that route, and neither has any of the most recent imports).

[hemi_fan]

If GM can make the new gto and corvette and the soltice good lookin cars inside and out they need to keep it up with there lower v-8 models u can still have have a american sting that tear up the pavement! :fist:

Dude, if you think the new GTO looks better than the 2002 Camaro SS, then you have some serious issues. I think the problem was their old plant needing to be closed and relocated, as well as GM wanting to release a completely new Camaro that has no compromises. I think they probably stopped production of current camaros so they could completely focus on the Future camaro generation. Then they just grabbed a Holden from accross the river, and stuck them in show-rooms to temporarily satisfy the HP hungry... just my .02

[peacenriot69]

i agree with hemi, The SS is way better looking car than the GTO, the interior of the GTO and although much nicer than the camaro interior it does not fit the exterior of the car when you sit in the new gto you feel like your in a race car but when you get out it looks like a gran prix or a bonneville from the front and 3/4 view, Pontiac cars latley have become faceless and un interesting. American cars have become faceless and un interesting, The only car that stands out is the COBRA, the new vetts are getting there but still , american cars although functional and decently made lack any new artistic flair and fail to stand out in a crowd of the newer more visually interesting import cars.
Keep in mind opinion opinion opinion , anyone care to back me up go ahead any one care to argue the point then come with facts figures and pics if you dare ! 0X

[SilviaS15Cwest]

About the price aspect... This is what they need to do with the new GTO... Offer a version that is striped down. Pull an SRT-4 version. Take out the power windows, locks, mirrors, seats, leather, and all of the other none neciseties and pass the savings on to the consumer. They could still make the nicer version for those who want it but leave an option open and then drop the price to $25,000. I would much rather have a new GTO that was stripped than anything else in the $25,000 class. Plus if you take all of that off the car will be lighter. Lighter = faster, better handling, faster breaking, etc.... I bet they would sell those by the truck load.