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brian
05-26-2004, 02:38 PM
Top Gear, June 2004

" 'Our new design was wrong'
BMW Boss's Shock Admission

You knew it, we knew it, anyone with any taste new it - BMW's 7-series is horrible. Now it seems BMW knows it too.

BMW has finally admitted what everyone in the car world has long known: the current 7-series is a disaster. In an interview with American business magazine Fortune, Helmut Panke, BMW's chairman, said: "I admit the intensity of the public debate over our new design (which began with the 7-series) did suprise me. There are still too many articles focusing on 'I wish this car looked different blah, blah, blah.' The 7-series was a combination of completely new technology with new design direction. The key point is that we should never make big steps in strategic directions without preparing our customers."

Panke is the first BMW executive to publicly acknowlege what many Munich insiders have privately been saying about the 7-series - that BMW made a big mistake in launching Chris Bangle's new design direction and the complex i-Drive system at the same time in the most conservative sector of the market with no explanation.

Panke's comments have been greeted with relief in Munich. "It's a weight off everyone's shoulders," one insider said. "Panke has finally said what we all knew but could not say - that we tried to do too much, too soon with the 7-series and we did it in the wrong market. We were too far ahead of the audience and lost a lot of goodwill. It was a real own goal that has overshadowed the launch of the very good cars that have followed the 7-Series." (This last sentence doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but it is verbatim from the article - RON430)

Panke's admission is part of a new PR approach by BMW. As sales of the Z4, the new 5-series and the 6-series rise, BMW execs are admitting past failings. At a recent private dinner in Spain, one senionr BMW board member told jounalists that BMW had done "an absolutely lousy job" of explaining the firm's new design and its minimalist cabin controls.

Even Chris Bangle himself has admitted making mistakes - although not when it comes to design. At a recent lecture at the Design Museum in London, he said: "Did we move in the right direction with design? Yes. Could we have done more to explain what we were doing and why? Yes."

Privately, Bangle believes that the BMW board were too slow to wake up to the scale of his design changes. They failed to explain his new modernist style and when it became clear that customers loved the 7-Series' performance but hated the looks and i-Drive, they acted too slowly to address the concerns.

The top-of-the-range 7-Series was launched two years ago. In spite of the chorus of criticism it attracted and sluggish sales - in particular in BMW's core German market - BMW insisted customers would learn to love it. However, last year executives rushed through a facelift designed to smooth the car's sharp edges, reduce its bulky profile and soften the clunky bootlid.

The new 7-Series will be unveiled later this year. BMW hopes its launch will mark the end of one of the most awkward chapters in the company's history."

Sure glad Top Gear feels that BMW has admitted its mistakes, I don't get that feeling from reading the article. You combine the awful reliability of the seven with the dubious design and I am convinced that most of the ones on the street are the result of good deals instead of people rushing out to fulfill their dreams.

That charming arrogance of BMW that endeared them to me so much is still evident. This "The designs are great, it is just that our customers are too dimwitted to see how good they are" ranks right down there with some of the biggest miscues GM ever made in figuring they knew better than the customer. Sure glad people still value that roundel so much. Worse part of a Lexus is boredom. They rarely break and don't degrade much, if at all, as you own them. They always start and generally everything works. But that doesn't seem to generate much automotive passion. As for bimmer, the best part was wanting one, not owning one. Or maybe no one at bimmer service ever explained to me how good I had it and I was too dimwitted to figure it out on my own.


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T-Bird
05-26-2004, 02:43 PM
OK I really like the new BMW design I don't know why people hate it so much you don't hear much explanation why people hate. I love the design alot period.

RC45
05-26-2004, 02:45 PM
Yep - the BMW Bang(led) Bus... ;)

bmagni
05-26-2004, 02:55 PM
well, i like the new desings in bmw, the 7 series is not that great but still its good, theyre makin a facelift to it so it will look better and its coming out this year i think, bout the 5 n 6 series n the z4, i find no flaws on those

nthfinity
05-26-2004, 03:03 PM
ive learned to live with the design..... i think the Z4 is anamazing looking machine, much better then its predicessor. that being that i am ok with the disign, i dont think im in the market for one :)

Sm@ck
05-26-2004, 03:08 PM
I actually like the 7 series.

how ever I don´t like the 6 series, it looks to massice, for a GT.

Oh well, soI guess this will be one of the most drastic facelift ever made in the automotive industry.

stradale
05-26-2004, 03:12 PM
its nice to hear that they finally can admitt being wrong and hopefully this is the start of a facelift that will debangle the bimmers and bring this great mark back to previous glory.... :D

I doubt that that is going to happen. BMW has only admitted for the change in design was too sudden and ill-communicated with the general public. BMW has not said its designs are wrong and they need to go back where they came from. Which is rightly so, I think. It is my opinion they're on the right track, albeit that they're receiving a lot of criticism from the press.

Promoting Bangle to the position where he is now responsible for the design of all of BMW's cars, which includes Mini and Rolls-Royce, and promoting Adrian van Hooydonk (who designed the current 7 series) to Bangle's previous job clearly means to me that BMW has no intention of changing things back. It says to me they're confident in the way it's going right now. Sales confirm that BTW.

st-anger
05-26-2004, 03:19 PM
...i´ll probably sell my E65 745i and the E85 Z4 3.0 this year, but one thing is 101% sure: i loved both of them, they´re great, just like Chris Bangle´s design...

i know, just some opinions, but what´s so wrong with the design of the latest BMWs......???

:|

Sm@ck
05-26-2004, 03:51 PM
...i´ll probably sell my E65 745i and the E85 Z4 3.0 this year...

:|

and replace them with a 911 convertible, and a cayenne?

st-anger
05-26-2004, 03:59 PM
...i´ll probably sell my E65 745i and the E85 Z4 3.0 this year...

:|

and replace them with a 911 convertible, and a cayenne?

hmmmm, i thought about a Carrera GT and a Scaglietti... :wink:

1zippo1
05-26-2004, 04:17 PM
...i´ll probably sell my E65 745i and the E85 Z4 3.0 this year...

:|

and replace them with a 911 convertible, and a cayenne?

hmmmm, i thought about a Carrera GT and a Scaglietti... :wink:

wow, that's about as good as you can possibly get...

The Carrera GT is one of the best supercars if not the best.
And the Scaglietti is the fastest car to travel long distances in, but I would go for the DB9.
So close to the ultimate combination!!!

But before I believe it: pics or STFU :wink:

Now seriously, what are you considering as replacements? Are you looking at something in the same range?

st-anger
05-26-2004, 04:21 PM
...i´ll probably sell my E65 745i and the E85 Z4 3.0 this year...

:|

and replace them with a 911 convertible, and a cayenne?

hmmmm, i thought about a Carrera GT and a Scaglietti... :wink:

wow, that's about as good as you can possibly get...

The Carrera GT is one of the best supercars if not the best.
And the Scaglietti is the fastest car to travel long distances in, but I would go for the DB9.
So close to the ultimate combination!!!

But before I believe it: pics or STFU :wink:

Now seriously, what are you considering as replacements? Are you looking at something in the same range?

...haven´t really decided yet, ´ve been to busy to manage something...
but i could be more or less anything, we ´ll see, to be honest i really don´t want to part with my two ladies i have now...i love them soooooo much :wink: :P

1zippo1
05-26-2004, 04:31 PM
...haven´t really decided yet, ´ve been to busy to manage something...
but i could be more or less anything, we ´ll see, to be honest i really don´t want to part with my two ladies i have now...i love them soooooo much :wink: :P

I can imagine it. I would like to have a 745i and a Z4 at my disposal :P
Especially the Z4, I really love it's styling, one of the best bmw designs from the last decade, together with the 645Ci. I can't still get quite used to the 7series behind however. The front looks very good, but that bonnet just disturbs the package IMO. But a 4.5i 333hp engine takes your mind of that I suppose :P

ae86_16v
05-26-2004, 10:32 PM
its nice to hear that they finally can admitt being wrong and hopefully this is the start of a facelift that will debangle the bimmers and bring this great mark back to previous glory.... :D

Haha, I like that, "Debangle" hahaha. . .

But it is weird they would make such a public statement. Although recent sales have been showing the decline for a while (with the exception of the new 5-series, which all new models enjoy).

I do like the Z4 however. Like I have been saying, "Flaming Surfaces" work well w/ smaller cars, but once you implement it into large cars such as the 7, it doesn't work well at all.

High3nd
05-26-2004, 10:41 PM
I'm lost, I havent herd from one person that I know that said the the 745 is ugly. In my opinon the NEW 7 is ugly. I dont like that godzilla eye shape, it looks too jap and toyota in my opinon.

Erez
05-26-2004, 11:31 PM
:D thats good news!! :D

stradale
05-27-2004, 06:44 AM
I think everyone should read closely what has been said by BMW. The headline by TG magazine is very misleading. Basically they've only said that the design change was ill-communicated with the public and that the 7 series' design wasn't completely spot on. That's why they're changing it. But the new 6 series, 5 series, Z4, X3 and new 1 series are not subject to this.

I know a lot of people like to see BMW change everything back like it was 5 years ago and in their enthusiasm about the misleading headline think BMW regrets all of its new designs, but it just isn't so. Read closely.

It's a bit of a shame though that TG tries to make this bigger than it actually is. They should stay away from these tabloid antics.

ae86_16v
05-27-2004, 09:58 AM
I think everyone should read closely what has been said by BMW. The headline by TG magazine is very misleading. Basically they've only said that the design change was ill-communicated with the public and that the 7 series' design wasn't completely spot on. That's why they're changing it. But the new 6 series, 5 series, Z4, X3 and new 1 series are not subject to this.

I know a lot of people like to see BMW change everything back like it was 5 years ago and in their enthusiasm about the misleading headline think BMW regrets all of its new designs, but it just isn't so. Read closely.

It's a bit of a shame though that TG tries to make this bigger than it actually is. They should stay away from these tabloid antics.

Yeah, but I was surprise even at that. But he did say that BMW was just too far ahead and the public wasn't ready for it yet.

You know what though, come to think of it, BMWs operate on a 7 year life cycle/model cycle. And usually they don't update until the 5th year. So they'll keep the same look for 4 years then update for the last 3. Now with the 7 series they'll just update one year earlier than expected, so this update will have to last 4 years.

No biggie. . .

Sir_GT
05-27-2004, 12:54 PM
Well...

I've seen the spy pics of the 7 series update in an asian magazine, and they tried to computer render it as well. It really isn't that much different. Just a slight bootlid adjustment (think regular 5 vs M5) and a change to the front grille and headlights. Nothing drastic, they just made is cleaner.

PATo355
05-27-2004, 02:02 PM
Bah ... as we didnt knew they were wrong :wink:

he7lius
05-28-2004, 06:20 AM
First i didn't like the 7 series, but now after get used to it i do.
I think that sometimes we are not ready for some cars

schnell318
05-29-2004, 11:32 AM
I´m among the people who love their new design, but I agree that you have to get used to some of them. But once I do get used to them I find them extremely beautiful and do not get bored with them because they really do stand out.

Example: E-class vrs. 5 series, the e-class may be good looking but at the end of the day is just another Merc and another car, whereas the 5 simply doesn`t cease to impress me. I guess most people like more conventional things.