Schumacher vs Montaya accident

[noosee]

Montoya and Schumacher cleared
Following Monaco collision
Michael Schumacher leaves Monaco most unhappy

Juan Pablo Montoya was cleared of deliberately causing an accident with Michael Schumacher in the Monaco Grand Prix here Sunday after the world champion's unbeaten start to the campaign ended in dramatic fashion.

Schumacher had been searching for a record sixth successive victory at the start of a season, but he exited the race in bizarre fashion when he braked behind the safety car and Montoya nudged him into the wall in the tunnel.

The pair were summoned to see stewards after the race but the sport's governing body the FIA said in a statement that no further action would be taken.

Ferrari's Schumacher was running third overall but was at the head of the field with Jarno Trulli and Jenson Button both having made their second pit-stops.

He was attempting to warm his brakes up with the safety car due to return to the pit-lane when Montoya's Williams collided with him. Montoya said: "Michael brakes very hard as he was warming up his brakes and I moved to the right side of the track to avoid him. But the gap narrowed and we touched."

Williams Technical Director Patrick Head denied that Montoya, who has not always seen eye-to-eye with Schumacher, had deliberately rammed the German off.



"No matter what Michael or Ross (Brawn) might think, Juan is not a dirty driver. He knows what respecting a fellow driver is and there were no dirty tricks," Head said.

"Juan has said that Michael put the brakes on hard and I don't think that is a wise thing to do in a dark tunnel."

Ferrari's technical director Ross Brawn believed Schumacher had an outside chance of snatching victory from Renault's Trulli after strategy had got the world champion up to third behind Button.

Brawn said: "It was very unfortunate. You don't want to go out of a race for that reason. We were informed that the safety car was coming in and it is normal to warm your brakes up."

"Juan Pablo hit the back of him. We had a chance of winning the race, not a great one but a chance. We had a lot of fuel left in the car and it may have been possible. It is very frustrating to go out like that."

[he7lius]

IMO it was Michael's fault, as F1 cars don't have a stop light and your in Monaco not in a wide track and to add to that, your in a tunnel.
He done this a few times so he got what he deserved.

[fakepower]

hummm from what i saw of it during the post race show, (it was on at 6:30am my time, ill watch it during a re-run tonight) i am not for certain what happened. i think the car may have braked harder than he intended, but i dont think that J.P.M. was at fault either.

[FerrariKiller]

Schumi had the brakes locked up all the way through the tunnel. I think something was wrong with his car and JPM didn't notice in time to avoid him. Regardless the day belongs to Jarno Trulli and his superb run. It's great to see BAR and Renault running so well.

[Max Power]

Shumi got screwed.....blame shitty driving....dammit

[sameerrao]

I think it was a racing incident.

Couple of points
- Schumi was close to the dirty (left side) while braking
- He brake hard enough to generate tire smoke
- Montoya moved to right to avoid him
- Schumacher's car also moved right and hit Montoya causing hime to bounce off the walls.

The interesting question I have in my mind is what caused the Schumacher's car to move to right - Was it:
a) braking too hard on the slippery side of track caused the car to move involuntarily
.. or ..
b) Schumacher saw Montoya come close on the right and instinctively closed the door thinking Montoya was overtaking him. Note: I am emphasising a gut reaction here - not a delibrate thought out action.

I am leaning toward option a myself but option b intrigues me nevertheless ....

[antonioledesma]

[quote="sameerrao"]I think it was a racing incident.

Couple of points
- Schumi was close to the dirty (left side) while braking
- He brake hard enough to generate tire smoke
- Montoya moved to right to avoid him
- Schumacher's car also moved right and hit Montoya causing hime to bounce off the walls.

The interesting question I have in my mind is what caused the Schumacher's car to move to right - Was it:
a) braking too hard on the slippery side of track caused the car to move involuntarily
.. or ..
b) Schumacher saw Montoya come close on the right and instinctively closed the door thinking Montoya was overtaking him. Note: I am emphasising a gut reaction here - not a delibrate thought out action.
quote]

My point of view:
MS was warming his brakes (they must reach a working temperature, you must have seen it with your car if the brakes are too cold or hot), and he was thinking in something else, looked uo and saw the safety car too close and stepped on the brakes. JPM avoided hitting in a natural and instinct move going to his right. Then the shit happens... MS in his hysterical braking moved a little to the right and JPM touched MS's car and sent him to the barriers.

Just another accident, but being MS things tend to go bigger (don't touch the sacred cow)

[Max Power]

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3641/MonacoShumiFuckup.jpg


Montoya screwed him completly over and I hope Shumi screws him at Nuremburg next week. FIA is getting soft.....they are afraid to punish anybody....y was Sato allowed to continue racing even though his engine was smoking for 4 laps......McLaren put Kimi in the garage because they knew his engine was gonna blow....good for Trulli...but a worthless race

[Zonda11]

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3641/MonacoShumiFuckup.jpg


Montoya screwed him completly over and I hope Shumi screws him at Nuremburg next week. FIA is getting soft.....they are afraid to punish anybody....y was Sato allowed to continue racing even though his engine was smoking for 4 laps......McLaren put Kimi in the garage because they knew his engine was gonna blow....good for Trulli...but a worthless race

Looks like they "touched"( as montoya said) pretty hard.

[jon_s]

How did JPM screw him over?? He did everything bar putting himself into the barrier to avoid MS. Then MS cut across JPM!

Also, the safety car was no where near MS when he broke!

[yg60m]

It's not the first time he brakes hard while following the safety car, he almost has an accident last year. I don't know why Montoya would have wanted to push MS out and risk to break too ?
And for the win, it would have been difficult as Jarno had a pit stop during the SC and MS should have made one more...

[Max Power]

Montoya, a back marker, threw off the race leader, he was not in contention, he knew Michael was warming his tires and brakes as he did for theprevious SC laps, so y was he following so close......the only conclusion I can come up with is he screwed him...and nobody is gonna change my mind

[SFDMALEX]

It was all Montoyas fault. Ill try to play devils advocate though.

Lets judge Schumi first. Is it against the rules to lock up your tires? No.

Now Montoya. First off during a safety car yellow flag session race cars should keep distance. And a lot of it. Why? Racers do varrious things to warm up their tires and brakes...weave around, brake and flore it etc etc........
Montoya should have kept distance. He did not. He did not attempt to brake when he saw schumi in trouble. And trust me that Williams would come to a complete stop in a nanosecond if travaling at less then 100kmh.

Jon- There is no reason for Schumi to cut of Juan. Even if he did(which he didnt) he would do Juan a faviour because passing under yellow especially with the safety is stricly prohibited and Mr.Juanito would get a penality and a half.

I dont know what Montoya did not to brake......if he didnt want to hit schumi then watta fuck was he doing in that car not to notice a lock up up ahead of him....was he jerking off or looking at the boats.......

[jon_s]

I am not trying to change your mind, but they were no closer than any other car at a given time during that safety car period. On the parade lap, it is often commented that it is all too easy smash into someone due to brake warming antics. I would be trying to relax at that moment of the race, under a safety e.t.c

As I said, JPM moved to the right, in order to avoid him. If MS had carried on in a straight line, we would not be having this conversation.

[redbaron]

JPM could have braked harder and noting would have happened. OK MS could have done the braking somewhere else, but he was the first driver behind the pace-car. So he's the one who sets the speed of the field behind him, they're not allowed to overtake him.
MS does brake heavy very often behind a pace-car to warm his tires and brakes, so JPM could have expected this!!!

[SFDMALEX]

I am not trying to change your mind, but they were no closer than any other car at a given time during that safety car period. On the parade lap, it is often commented that it is all too easy smash into someone due to brake warming antics. I would be trying to relax at that moment of the race, under a safety e.t.c

As I said, JPM moved to the right, in order to avoid him. If MS had carried on in a straight line, we would not be having this conversation.

I know what you mean but as in road accidents, the guy behind is always wrong.

The one thing that puzzles me is why montoya tried to "avoid" him by moving to the right...why not brake?

I guess we will never know.

[jon_s]

Oh I agree, I am not anti schumi, in fact I have a bit of a thing against JPM. From the (limited) video of the incident, I saw little reason for the whole incident. MS had every right to brake (perhaps the tunnel was not the brightest idea) JPM took avoiding action, god knows why he did not brake properly, then it just went wrong. Each driver has to take some responsibility for that accident. Neither are completely innocent.

[saadie]

schumi is slowly and gradually going down ......
this is prolly his last season .....
it'll be ya know wierd to see MS outta the score board ...
hes a legend .......

[Toronto]

this was all Montoya's fault, he tried to pass shumi under a safty car lap. he should be kicked out of f1, and go back to that "indy" that made him so "good", i think he is the worst person in an f1 car out there today, next to sato, who caused the 3rd worst thing in the race (shumi out 1st, then alonso out 2nd) :D

[Max Power]

AHAHAHAHA......SHumi couldn't win 6 in a row....damn I guess he is slowly and gradually going down...you're so right

[sameerrao]

this was all Montoya's fault, he tried to pass shumi under a safty car lap. he should be kicked out of f1, and go back to that "indy" that made him so "good", i think he is the worst person in an f1 car out there today, next to sato, who caused the 3rd worst thing in the race (shumi out 1st, then alonso out 2nd)


Quit frothing and foaming so much - it was just a racing incident :) :)

Montoya the worst person in F1 today ...Yeah Right!

[sameerrao]

schumi is slowly and gradually going down ......
this is prolly his last season .....
it'll be ya know wierd to see MS outta the score board ...
hes a legend .......


What are you smoking?

What do you mean slowly and gradually going down - One bad race and its doomsday ... Give a break!

And where is the gradual decline you are referring to - Schumi was as fast as anyone over the last couple races - 4 poles, 5 wins and couple fastest laps (including Monaco) are not an indication of someone going down.

He fought back from far worse last year!

He was just unlucky today. Be assured he will bounce back - he is still the favourite to clinch the championship..

[SFDMALEX]

schumi is slowly and gradually going down ......
this is prolly his last season .....
it'll be ya know wierd to see MS outta the score board ...
hes a legend .......

Ahhh welcome to planet earth. Im sure things are different on mars.

[MB300E87]

what i don't understand is why he was doing that in the tunnel.

just kinda shows how much more dangerous the Monacco GP is than many of the other tracks.. this is the first full season i've been able to watch so the Monacco GP of 2004 is the first time i've seen this "track" raced. its just an insane track. i'm honestly surprised as many cars finished as they did. Rubens hit the nail on the head when he said he was just happy to finish.

[caugb]

Incredible to see so many fans after so many boring seasons.
Anyway, today was not Michael's day. He was lucky once, when Trulli's 7 second lead was gone due to the first SC. Then Alonso screwed his race all alone and Trulli was smart to pit quickly. MS only chance was another SC until the end. In my opinion, MS sold his soul to the devil. I remember when his car got on fire in the pits and he won! Today could be another lucky day for him, but maybe the devil thought that too much luck would be too strange.
Anyway, it was MS's fault. This time MS's little brother (in Alonso's crash) and Montoya were cleared.

[3D_CARD]

Who knows what could happen when Schumi meet JPM?

But one thing I'm damn sure, one of them will end up on the grass or kissing the barrier. :roll:

[Balls]

montoya may not have intentionally knocked michael off... but i think he is still to blame.

This isn't the first time he's pulled along side someone in front of him during a SC lap.... He's even waved to drivers in front of him to speed up! So it's not a surprise to me that he did it again here in MonteCarlo, but I think it was a surprise for Michael. There's no point for him to close the door on anyone trying to pass since it isn't allowed. And now put yourself in JP's shoes: You're next to a car on the lead lap, the safety car is out, he's moving toward you... you're running out of space do you A) give him some room, or B) stay on the gas?

I used to consider myself a JP fan but nowadays he's making it difficult. My only consolation is in imagining that Juan simply wasn't paying attention until it was too late. He did, according to the telecast, apologize to Ferrari so maybe that's what happened.

[aj887]

As much as I would like to believe the accident was JPM's fault, it was just a combination of strategy placed with bad timing on the part of Schumi and JPM. I would love for it to be JPM's fault because he's been sort of a cry baby as of late, but I think we need to look at the bigger picture here and that is that Schumi is still 5/6 and that Ferrari has podiumed in every single race. I'm sure that it seems like a big deal now, but all the commotion will die down because there's bound to be an even bigger incedent between JPM and Schumacher. Maybe even along the lines of the one that took place between Schumacher and Coulthard at Spa in 1998 which escalated into a fight. I'm sure Michael would like to avoid a fight but it's gonna have to happen at some point so him and JPM can both let their anger out.

[sikx5]

Fucken Pebbles..........always has to start something doesnt he. I wish they could pin something on the cunt, he deserves to go down like the little bitch he is.

[Caps8419]

how is winning 5 races in a row slowing down? the man got sucker punched by that ass montoya.... seriously that man just pisses the hell out of me... hes prolly thinking to himself (say with a lisp) "good, got that michael back for what he did to me in spain.... stupid 6 time world champion!" yea that was corny so sue me!

[Zonda11]

As much as I would like to believe the accident was JPM's fault, it was just a combination of strategy placed with bad timing on the part of Schumi and JPM. I would love for it to be JPM's fault because he's been sort of a cry baby as of late, but I think we need to look at the bigger picture here and that is that Schumi is still 5/6 and that Ferrari has podiumed in every single race. I'm sure that it seems like a big deal now, but all the commotion will die down because there's bound to be an even bigger incedent between JPM and Schumacher. Maybe even along the lines of the one that took place between Schumacher and Coulthard at Spa in 1998 which escalated into a fight. I'm sure Michael would like to avoid a fight but it's gonna have to happen at some point so him and JPM can both let their anger out. As of about a week ago I was hearing a lot about F1 being boring. Maybe if F1 was to allow fist fights after every incident - no one would dare say it is boring. :D :D :D :D

[Max Power]

Definetly......if u could a sort of bench clearing all out brawl between pits.....say Ferrari vs Williams....aim the refueling hose light it up and see which pits gives up first....that wouldn't be too boring at all

[szumszer]

first things first: it was an accident

no way in hell was the crash schumi's fault, but I don't think this time JPM did anything intentionally, for once at least, as he honestly tried to avoid schumi; it was JPM's fault for being too close and not stopping, but the circumstances were difficult and moving to the right to avoid schumi's f1 was probably the right move, because if JPM was to abruptly stop in the tunnel, other drivers behind him would crash into each other as well; thus JPM was at fault, but only because the two cars collided after JPM moved along side schumi, however his move to avoid crashing into the back of schumi was the right thing to do at the time; as far as schumi, he did nothing wrong, the front left wheel locked up as he braked near the outside, dirty line filled with rubber marbles; he lost traction, which brought him close to the barrier, and as he tried to avoid hitting the guardrail he crashed into JPM, who by that time was next to schumi; schumi probably was not aware of JPM in that spot as he was concentrating on maintaining control and avoiding the guardrail, but so many here seem to wonder why schumi turned so abruptly in JPM's direction ... simple ... the tunnel turns at that point to the right; yes, it gently curves to the right, but at that end portion, the tunnel has a more abrupt angle to the right, before its exit; that is precisely why schumi had to turn so fast to the right as the corner tightened that way, while trying to maintain control of his f1 by regaining traction in the front and avoiding the guardrail ... it was just an unfortunate accident, there were some mistakes made by JPM, but it was not his fault that schumi crashed into him, it was truly a freak accident at the best GP in the entire f1 season (always monacco, hope someone will be able to host the video, cause this one is worth having on file); as to whether schumi was capable of beating trulli if he did not crash, well, with schumi in the game with so many laps left and some laps he posted, you never know, most likely trulli would have won, but you can never minimize the impact the reigning world champion can have on a race

[ngudan]

To begin with, i think, it was a very interesting race - and exciting. Had abit of emotions here and there begining mainly with Alonso's shocking retirement, and then, the creme deli creme, shuey's departure from the race. I have to congrats Trulli and Button for their magnficant performance through out the weekend - great racing till the end!

About the incident, i believe it really was an accident (like szumszer said). Just to work with the foundations, i mean, it was a dark tunnel after all, these cars don't have any break lights, and shucks, montoya responded with racing instinct i.e. trying to pass. It's when coincidence after coincidence occur at one time that something magnficant or disastrous happens - like this. Really a big shame shuey departed from the race in this way (especially seeing his left wheel hang loosely by his control arms upon return from the commercial!), however, nonetheless, i believe we all should view this matter in a more "racing" perspective - where anything can and does happen. Just funny how the person who collided with shuey was his 'arch' rival... coincidence hehe

anyway, looking forward to the next round.. nurby!

[saadie]

i dont smoke ........... and yah ...... accidents are accidents

and ya know why ppl hate shumi ......... the reason is tht schumi is winning continously ...... its alwayz been a one sided race ....... im not offending ne one ere ...... the truth is the truth .... n yah i am not one of those ppl who hate him ...
i really like him for hes one of the best drivers ........

[Stino]

There's no doubt: Michael Schumacher is the best driver in the championship ... but boy, when he came out of that tunnel with a broken wheel and nose, that was the best picture of all times.
The accident wasn't Montoya's fault. The braking of MS in that part of the circuit was unprofessional. Not what you expect of a world champion (that won several championships with unprofessional behauviour).
I'm very happy about the victory of Trulli and the second place of Jenson. I hope that this will break the winning spree of MS. Maybe Montoya can break another wheel of MS next week ...

[saadie]

i agree wid ya Stino ...... MS braked too hard ....... he was prolly ( ya know ) trying Villnauve style ..... skare em off with the smoke thingy ..........


i was thinking .. IF ( i know this aint possible ) but still IF Villnauve joins Ferrari ... think of the destruction he would create .... he is the most daring driver isnt he ...

[ingko]

Oh man, does anyone know of a highlights web site of F1 races?? This one sounded good. I remember a site couple years back used to have 2-3 minute highlights with sound and commentary from tv til it got found by F1 and was shutdown.

I don't know what happened, but I read that Schumacher threw his helmet in the paddock. He was pissed that he caused such a silly accident I bet. Go Montoya, beat the Yankees of F1! :fist:

[noosee]

I just can't imagine how much shitty things would Montoya say if schema had done same thing to him. He would shout and everyone would blame Michael 4 the accident. And now he is quiet - nothing 2 say.

[schnell318]

I´m sorry for all you MS fans but it wasn´t Montoya´s fault it was nothing but a racing incident but if someone was to blame then it would be Schumacher, he was the one who braked too hard and made Montoya drive by his side just not to crash into him.

[Balls]

I'm sorry for all you MS haters, but it wasn't Shumacher's fault it was nothing but a racing incident but if someone was to blame then it would be Montoya, he was the one who was following too closely when he knew the car in front of him was trying to keep his tires/brakes warm.

[Balls]

darn... doesn't really work when the post is on the next page... hehe

but seriously, my point is that the argument is meaningless. I guess that's why it was ruled race incident.

[schnell318]

Of course it is meaningless there is no point in blaiming montoya just because MS didn´t make it 6 out of 6.

[Balls]

ms wasn't going to win anyway...

not that it has anything to do with montoya taking him out.

[Drive4Ever]

guys, how is that Montoya's fault? i dont like Montoya that much either, but obviously shumi caught Montoya off guard and Montoya tried to go right to avoid him. besides, if Montoya pass him during that period of time, he will get penalize anyway. so either way shumi will still end up on top of Montoya. this debate will just go on and on and on. we'll never found out the truth, like everything else :roll:

[Balls]

that's my point of view as well...
it was indeed, a race incident.
"shit happens"

[Braden Head]

It was all Montoyas fault. Ill try to play devils advocate though.

Lets judge Schumi first. Is it against the rules to lock up your tires? No.

Now Montoya. First off during a safety car yellow flag session race cars should keep distance. And a lot of it. Why? Racers do varrious things to warm up their tires and brakes...weave around, brake and flore it etc etc........
Montoya should have kept distance. He did not. He did not attempt to brake when he saw schumi in trouble. And trust me that Williams would come to a complete stop in a nanosecond if travaling at less then 100kmh.

Jon- There is no reason for Schumi to cut of Juan. Even if he did(which he didnt) he would do Juan a faviour because passing under yellow especially with the safety is stricly prohibited and Mr.Juanito would get a penality and a half.

I dont know what Montoya did not to brake......if he didnt want to hit schumi then watta fuck was he doing in that car not to notice a lock up up ahead of him....was he jerking off or looking at the boats.......


What a load of crap. In the tunnel you have maximum traction when you are doing 160mph but when you are crawling along behind the pace car then the track is like ice. madeness to brake like an idiot in the tunnel- he had no control - stupid thing to do. Huge brain fade. The camera showed that he full on locked the brakes and what else could Montoya do. When you are leading a line of cars you look in the mirror and accelerate and then brake. There is no one more experienced at restarts than Montoya. Schuey had a huge brain fade from - he is only human.

[saadie]

if montoya hit the brakes all the cars behind him would bang into him ... so what he did was the best option .... he went through .... it was all schumachers fault ......

[amanthapar]

hmm.. montoya couldnt over take right since it was a safety car on and if he would he would get penalised right?
but then again i think montoya should have been looking ( watch te video CHOSELY... THE REACTION TIME TO BRAKE IS SOOOOOO MUCH!! ) INSTEAD OF MOVING TO THE LEFT HE COULD HAVE BRAKED .. AND F1 CARS CAN BRAKE 100KMPHTO 0 IN UNDER 1 SEC..

[kompak]

that safety car is quite far from schumacher....why schumacher have to brake hard???is he some kind of understeered during that corner or what???

[szumszer]

it really wasn't anybodies fault, accidents in racing happen, this one was just more important, because it involved world's greatest current race car driver, that's all; schumi was pissed like hell, justifiably so, but JPM did his best to avoid the accident; schumi was loosing traction and going into side rails, so he made a quick move to the right to avoid the right curving tunnel walls, JPM happened to be there, schumi probably did not even see him, he was concentrating on the tunnel wall to his left and safety car in the front ... it was an unfortunate accident, I dislike JPM, but here he was not at fault