McLaren F1 vs Ferrari Enzo

[sau_mathur]

Dunno if anyone has posted this before, but just wondering what everyone thot wud be the outcome of a race between the above mentioned cars on a Race Track, NOT a Straight Line.

We know the frontal area of the Enzo is bigger than that of the F1. and with the increased downforce it interrupts clean airflow, creating more resistance.

Hmm...im analysing it myself in this post....!! What do u guys have to say abt it?? Very interested

[ahmedgiyab]

I think that the Enzo is faster on a track...they say that its the fastest car on track

ever!!! :roll:

I think it can be true coz Ferrari always goes for sure... :wink:

[gucom]

lol totally depends on the track, i think the more (tight) corners the better the Enzo will do
But we really need Top Gear to test the Enzo and the big mac around their track, that way we'll have a clear result, and we can compare both cars to othes like Carrera GT/SLR/Zonda/CC8S


BTW this kind of discussion has been done before, i htink only some 1000000000000000000000000000000 times...

[PATo355]

The Enzo will win of course is the best car in the world

[Chingachgook]

ENZO!

The Mac is not as good handling as the Enzo. The chassis, the aero, the brakes are best in the Enzo. The Enzo is the best car in the world

[SPEEDKILLAR]

^^^^^^Thamar I see that you are in a good mood today LOL


But you are wright, unless you actually haven't driven it yet, its impossible to know.

[bobafett]

I've driven both, but never on track.

--Dan

[he7lius]

It all depends on your driving style.
Some people like underster some overster, so u may be good with a car that u would probably never thought of. :D

[sameerrao]

I've driven both, but never on track.

--Dan

So what did you think - give detailed answer. Eagerly waiting.... :shock: :shock: :shock:

[Drogear]

On the track I would take the ENZO no question. It was made for the track and the mclaren is meant to be used on the track and the street. From what I have heard about the mclaren, the suspension is not as stiff as the ENZO so I think the enzo would handle better on the track since that is really what it was made for!

[spicymustard]

I too would have to say the enzo would win on a track, however i would still rather have a McLaren F1, HOWEVER that being said, i think the McLaren LM would crush the ENZO's lap time into submission on any track. too bad LM's dont make it out very often.

[bobafett]

Sameerrao: well, the problem is I've driven neither on track. They are both red, and owned by a friend. He's definetly not a great driver, so I have no basis of "which would win on what track" (which is silly, because different tracks complement different cars).

I was immediately more at home in the Enzo. It's very inviting, very "easy" to drive. The McLaren is a bit silly - you have to step into the comedy doors, and then across the sill on each side of the seat (and you come in from the left, because of the gearshift). The seats are extremely comfortable, as are the Enzos, and feel different (Enzo seats are a bit more 'conventional').

Power delivery - holy crap. Both are linear, and it takes a little getting used to the shift of the Macca. The F1 system on the Enzo is *dramatically* different than on the 360/355. I have a spot for a 360CS (probably not going to take it, as I think the F40 will be good enough and I don't want to get rid fo the 550) - I'm told that the Enzo is much like the 360CS in that it's lightning quick and they really did a great job with the upshifts (downshifts were always good). I'll drive a CS to compare. But for power delivery - it's really hard to say. The Enzo....it's very Ferrari in that it's torquey down low, but you really ride the wave to the top, and for the last 2k rpms...it's just ZINGS. The Macca, by comparison - it's just like this mountain that never ends...you shift because you have to, and it just keeps pulling.

Again, I only drove on regular roads so I can't really speak about handling. The Enzo felt a bit stiffer...a bit more racer-boy than the Mac. F1 just seems to absorb whatever was in the road. It also has much larger profile tires, I think (they looked bigger, anyways. Don't recall numbers.)

Not sure what else to point out. Everything's very subjective. The Mac interior is *very* cleverly laid out. If you've ever read "Driving Ambition," you know how much thought they put into this car. The Enzo feels a bit more "normal," especially jumping back nito another Ferrari. There's definetly a comfort feeling knowing you're "at home," but then I'm biased.

So which would I choose? Err...all of the above? :D

--Dan

[bobafett]

But you guys are forgetting, what about the Merc McLaren SLR...

And will gladly continue to forget. G. Murray doesn't like it. Why would anyone else?

What a waste of time... the *only* thing this car has going for it is for the bench racers, and frankly, something else will come along shortly. Oh, and it may be good for a few rap videos....

--Dan

[number77]

Mclaren would win, but the track does matter to

[bmagni]

i think the enzo would do, the accel of both cars is near the same, some get a better one with the enzo others with the f1... but, the enzos lat accel is about 1.01 g and the mcs is like 0.88 so thats a big difference, bout the top speed, theres no track that the top speed would help, like bobafett says with his 550, the modena beats it at the twisties...

[sentra_dude]

Sameerrao: well, the problem is I've driven neither on track. They are both red, and owned by a friend. He's definetly not a great driver, so I have no basis of "which would win on what track" (which is silly, because different tracks complement different cars).

I was immediately more at home in the Enzo. It's very inviting, very "easy" to drive. The McLaren is a bit silly - you have to step into the comedy doors, and then across the sill on each side of the seat (and you come in from the left, because of the gearshift). The seats are extremely comfortable, as are the Enzos, and feel different (Enzo seats are a bit more 'conventional').

Power delivery - holy crap. Both are linear, and it takes a little getting used to the shift of the Macca. The F1 system on the Enzo is *dramatically* different than on the 360/355. I have a spot for a 360CS (probably not going to take it, as I think the F40 will be good enough and I don't want to get rid fo the 550) - I'm told that the Enzo is much like the 360CS in that it's lightning quick and they really did a great job with the upshifts (downshifts were always good). I'll drive a CS to compare. But for power delivery - it's really hard to say. The Enzo....it's very Ferrari in that it's torquey down low, but you really ride the wave to the top, and for the last 2k rpms...it's just ZINGS. The Macca, by comparison - it's just like this mountain that never ends...you shift because you have to, and it just keeps pulling.

Again, I only drove on regular roads so I can't really speak about handling. The Enzo felt a bit stiffer...a bit more racer-boy than the Mac. F1 just seems to absorb whatever was in the road. It also has much larger profile tires, I think (they looked bigger, anyways. Don't recall numbers.)

Not sure what else to point out. Everything's very subjective. The Mac interior is *very* cleverly laid out. If you've ever read "Driving Ambition," you know how much thought they put into this car. The Enzo feels a bit more "normal," especially jumping back nito another Ferrari. There's definetly a comfort feeling knowing you're "at home," but then I'm biased.

So which would I choose? Err...all of the above? :D

--Dan

Wow, thanks alot for the 'review'...its pretty rare to have someone drive one of those cars, much less both of them, and I for one appricate you telling us about your experience driving the F1 & Enzo. Very interesting, thanx Dan 8).

[RC45]

Yep - nice review, thanks... let's hope the "Red Enzo" wasn't the one that ended up barbaqued on Allan Parkway... ;)

[kteo2003]

i think that the mclaren doesn't have a chance because it is simply ten year older than these enzo......

[bobafett]

Bmagni: what I was pointing out is that while everyone accept the 360 as a better handling car, the 550 wins around certain tracks (the ring, etc.) and the 360 on others (I don't remember Fiorano lap times by Dario).

That's why the numbers mean nothing. Also - what lateral acceleration numbers are you using to compare the Mac to the F1? What were the circumstances, what was the test, etc? This is all important and why you can't just spew out numbers at random.

Thanks for the kind words, guys. Always glad to share what little insight I may have (often worthless :D ). RC: no, it wasn't the car you have in mind (ahem...near you...son of someone i know...). These cars are part of a local collection.

Actually, I was thinking about it today. I personally know 3 people in this area alone who have both an Enzo and F1. Pretty odd. Of course there are others the world around. I guess it's not too surprising given that there are approxametly 35 Enzos around here.

--Dan

[sentra_dude]

35 Enzos :shock: I guess you live in an...ahem...well off area...

Any other drives that you think we might find interesting?

[HoboPie]

The Enzo is quicker around a track. In the Brundle video the aspects he highlighted for the Enzo are extremely important for the track. He also continued to praise the Enzo's brakes also really important and finally he said the Enzo was very quick around a track.

Tiff also said in a mag scan from top gear a while back that the Mclaren was more fun for a driver, but he could make an F50 go around a track faster. There I think the track would make a difference, but the Enzo has far too many advantages. It is essentially as quick as the Mclaren to 175mph. The Enzo takes 13.1 to 150 the F1 12.8 not exactly nothing, but the Enzo and F1 were trading wins for standard acceleration figures largely due to shifts. The enzo does the standing km(tested) in 19.52 seconds, the F1 in 19.55 seconds. So it is pretty much even there. In every other track aspect the Enzo has the advantage.

As for the LM I'm not absolutely sure, but a good test is 0-100-0. The Enzo does it in 10.98 the LM 11.5

[HeilSvenska]

I don't know about Enzo...it WAS designed by a guy named Ken...

[nthfinity]

well, if the F1 was a no compromise to anybody else' wishes beside gordon murray... the SLR is far from that..... yes, its bloody fast. its a mercedes, and im sure they could've done it in house rather then hire Macca. as Macca feel the F1 is the perfect car, i dont ever foresee an mclaren F2 or something to that nature.

the Enzo is full of compromises as well.... adjustable suspension is far from the best suited for a track. and it was never ment to haul golf bags :) i like those compromises myself :)

will i ever ride one, and decide , not likely, but i hope so.

gordon murry really hates the SLR????

[sentra_dude]

well, if the F1 was a no compromise to anybody else' wishes beside gordon murray... the SLR is far from that..... yes, its bloody fast. its a mercedes, and im sure they could've done it in house rather then hire Macca. as Macca feel the F1 is the perfect car, i dont ever foresee an mclaren F2 or something to that nature.

the Enzo is full of compromises as well.... adjustable suspension is far from the best suited for a track. and it was never ment to haul golf bags :) i like those compromises myself :)

will i ever ride one, and decide , not likely, but i hope so.

gordon murry really hates the SLR????

I wouldn't doubt that he hates it...the SLR goes against pretty much everything he wants in a sports car. If you ever read Driving Ambition you will sort of understand him a little more, but basically what he wants in a sports car:

-Above all else, light weight
-N/A engine, preferably V12
-small and compact, efficient use of space
-light weight
-mid-engine
-manual transmission
-no extra electronic gizmos...such as traction control, etc
-take away everything that takes away from the driving experience (power steering, etc)
-did I mention light weight

The SLR violates pretty much all of these;
-SLR is fat
-supercharged V8
-its a large car (SLR is as long as a CLK, the F1 is only as long as a Boxster) but despite its exterior size it has a small cabin
-front engined (although the engine is smashed so far back it is almost mid-engine)
-torque converter
-way too heavy
-traction control and other electronic nannies
-lots of steering & braking assist

So the SLR goes against most all that he wants in a car...and his company's name, and to a lesser extent his name, is on it, I think I would be pissed at the car too...:roll:

[bobafett]

BTW, Murray isn't totally against front-engined cars. Read what he wrote abotu the Maranello in CAR some years back.

--Dan

[SPAD]

I think the enzo would win on most tracks.it has better exeleration than the mac, alot better handling faster shifts and better braking.also it may not be as fast as the mac in a stright line it is deffenitly no civic and it does go faster than 217mph
(factory specs).

i dont think there is much point in comparing these cars.The f1 is old tech

[N.J.]

(Tiff Needell)

"The absolute greatest car in the world is...the McLaren F1.

The fastest production car ever! A top speed of 240.3mph means it can cover a mile in 15 seconds. It holds records for acceleration and the highest speed around a circuit which was set by me at 195. I tested on TV way back in 1992 and its still the drive I get asked about most...



...the thing I remember most from that momentous day 10 years ago was after spending half a day hoodling around on public roads getting used to the car I finally dropped it down to second gear - and opened the throttle!!!...

...and that feeling of sheer exileration still hasn't changed to this day. The whole thing about driving this McLaren F1 is not only this Formula One central driving position experience, but its the feel of the steering, the feel of the brakes, the car is so alive beneath you...

...Its 10 years old, yet, it doens't even look like dating. Talk to Gordon Murray and he'll tell you he wouldn't do anything different if he had to build it again today.

I'll say it again, the McLaren F1 IS the greatest car in the world - and I can't see anything ever beating it."

[abbor]

I don't like the design of the McLaren... It's just completely fucked up is what I mean.. Still, the performance is good, and I wouldn't mind driving or owning one...
But on the top of my list is the Ferrari Enzo..

[abbor]

I don't like the design of the McLaren... It's just completely fucked up is what I mean.. Still, the performance is good, and I wouldn't mind driving or owning one...
But on the top of my list is the Ferrari Enzo..

[gucom]

well i LOVE the F1 design, its no fancy show-off stuff, just pure functional form, but sooooooooooo good looking, alot better looking than the Enzo, with all its weird things sticking out.
Also, from what i heard, when MB asked gordon murray and McLaren to make a car with them, Gordon Murray started designing, and made the most rediculously light, small, nimble can u can imagine, with a mid-engine, but hte MB came alonmg and said it had to be a real Mercedes, so with Front engine, easy to drive for old ppl with too much money, and luxurioius. So the SLR is the final product.

[HoboPie]

(Tiff Needell)

"The absolute greatest car in the world is...the McLaren F1.

The fastest production car ever! A top speed of 240.3mph means it can cover a mile in 15 seconds. It holds records for acceleration and the highest speed around a circuit which was set by me at 195. I tested on TV way back in 1992 and its still the drive I get asked about most...



...the thing I remember most from that momentous day 10 years ago was after spending half a day hoodling around on public roads getting used to the car I finally dropped it down to second gear - and opened the throttle!!!...

...and that feeling of sheer exileration still hasn't changed to this day. The whole thing about driving this McLaren F1 is not only this Formula One central driving position experience, but its the feel of the steering, the feel of the brakes, the car is so alive beneath you...

...Its 10 years old, yet, it doens't even look like dating. Talk to Gordon Murray and he'll tell you he wouldn't do anything different if he had to build it again today.

I'll say it again, the McLaren F1 IS the greatest car in the world - and I can't see anything ever beating it."

That doesn't mean it is quickest around a track. Somewhere on this forum I believe there was a Mclaren vs F50 or just a one car review done by Top Gear. In the end Tiff said for the average driver the Mclaren was more fun, but in his hands the would get quicker lap times in the F50.

On a track the Enzo has an advantage over the F50 in just about every possible area. I think the Enzo wins in this comparison.

[Squeek]

On a track the Enzo has an advantage over the F50 in just about every possible area. I think the Enzo wins in this comparison.

again its personal opinion that is in play. i think that its what you as an individual thinks, not all the peformance values n stuff. yeah the f1 might go slightly faster, but is it as fun to drive as the enzo? the enzo does have increased downforce in the front wing, but can u drift and drive with the same setup? all personal preferences. id call it a draw. :roll:

[irrational_i]

i think that the mclaren doesn't have a chance because it is simply ten year older than these enzo......

Age matters less than you think. Also depends on the track.
I would guess that the Mclaren may win on the original Le Mans for instance (Long straights), but the Enzo on any shorter track, mostly because of its better brakes.

As for age - it would be interesting to match, for instance, a 1950's Jaguar XKSS on a twisty short track. The Enzo is BIG and HEAVY...

[HoboPie]

I just don't think everyone realizes how little difference there is between the Enzo and Mclaren in a straightline.

0-60 = 3.3 vs 3.2
0-100 = 6.6 vs 6.3
0-130 = 10.3 vs 10.4
0-150 = 13.1 vs 12.8
1/4 = 11.1 vs 11.1
1km = 19.52 vs 19.55 @ 175mph
top speed(lemans maybe) 225mph(best so far) vs 231mph(with limiter)

The Enzo has an advantage everywhere else and the Mclaren is only a very very small bit quicker, and at about 175mph they are still even. That isn't going to make up for the Enzo's track prowess.

[sentra_dude]

^^^So what...I don't care if the Enzo is a whole second faster to 60mph, or if it can lap a track much faster than the F1...it should be able to with 10+years on the F1; if anything, its surprising that the Enzo isn't noticeably faster than the F1 in every area.

The Enzo will never be the better car, not with all the bullshit it has, flappy paddles, power steering, traction control, launch control...psh :roll:...and it will never look as good as the F1.

[HoboPie]

The Mclaren may be 10 years old, but that actually works against the Enzo in several ways. First emissions these days are very very strict. In fact even Ferrari thought it would be impossible to do something like the Enzo at first because of the restrictions. Second safety is a huge thing now. The Enzo has a lot of weight because of safety requirements.

Also price is a very big thing. At twice the price of the Enzo(and they still weren't making money) Mclaren used everything to the max, if the same thing was done now no doubt they would make something better, but it just isn't feasible anymore, even for Mclaren. I'm not using that as an excuse because I realize that really has no place in the comparison, but it does explain why a car that costs twice the price might still have advantages over a car built ten years later.

Also, the I wasn't claiming the Enzo was necessarily quicker in a straightline because I'm fairly certain it isn't. I was just saying that it isn't so slow in comparison that the openess of any realistic track would make a difference.

Lastly the reason I'm talking about track speed is because.......... that is what the thread is about. You are not talking about what this thread is dedicated to.

edit: and as predicted by many about 175 the Enzo has a big disadvantage in terms of drag.

0-300km/h = 26.1 seconds, very fast, but not quite the 23.4 of the Mclaren