Sequential Shift vs Manual

[sau_mathur]

Weve heard Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear go on about how much he HATES the f1 style sequential shift gearbox. Sure, one isnt as much in control as one would like to be in, with this type, but the newer systems are very very efficient, and they work well with highly tuned engines of the supercars these days.

I would love to hear what u guys have to say abt this...and what your opinion is...Is jeremy clarkson just incapable of using the f1 shift the way it is needed, or is there more to it???

Hope to hear from u!!!!

[RC45]

On the street sequential shift can be a pain... motorcycle riders can vouch for this... sometimes you want to skip from 6th straight to 3rd when slowing in traffic...
but you have to go 6th-5th-4th-3rd which is easy, but a pain sometimes...

But in a racing situation you are on the boil at all times and will want to exploit each of those ratios on the way and down through the box... even if only for a split second as you scrub off speed.

(assuming this is what you meant by your topic...)

[tanelvali]

I prefer manual. Only sequential I have driven was BMW M3 Cabrio. IMO it just lacks of prompt response.. comfortable, yes, but I like to do my own driving.

[Kangaroo Boy]

I want a H pattern Dog Box for my car like a V8 supercar. :twisted: I've been told they are pointless unless your racing.

[coombsie66]

In the end are you talking about a sequential shift or an electronicly controlled paddle shift, cus the thue sequentials are great for the acceleration (the box as in dani's clio above) but a pain on the downshift, but the flappy padle ones i dont think give any feel.
Plus u can have the paddle one as in the M3CSL and 360 which are like manuals but opperated automatically, so still sound good and shift quickly, or the normal automatic gearbox which u can tell when 2 cahnge gear wiv some silly buttons (most common type!) these still have a viscous torque converter so sound shite, and are slow at shifting.
IMO i just like a good manual box

[graywolf624]

"beat sequential F355 and M3, so when "racing" in a racetrack, the manual is better than the current sequential gearboxes. However, I own an Alfa Selespeed and at the end, it becomes boring, confortable in the city, but boring in twisty roads."

actually the smg in the m3 shifts faster then the m3 manual. Same with the f355. Faster then any human can shift. The issue comes in on transmission weight.

Another side point.. unlike the street versions, the actual f1 versions have an optional button for clutch modulation.. at least ferraris does.

[Toronto]

I don't know why they call it F1 style gear box, mainly be cause an f1 car has 2 sets of paddels, 1 for the clutch another for the gears. If this type of gear box was to be put on a car it wouldn't be that bad, it is manual put the clutch you use with your hands not you foot. and you can jump down gears just like in a stick. i hope this is the way BMW does the new m5, cause "F1 style" is not as good as real F1

[sameerrao]

Weve heard Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear go on about how much he HATES the f1 style sequential shift gearbox. Sure, one isnt as much in control as one would like to be in, with this type, but the newer systems are very very efficient, and they work well with highly tuned engines of the supercars these days.

I would love to hear what u guys have to say abt this...and what your opinion is...Is jeremy clarkson just incapable of using the f1 shift the way it is needed, or is there more to it???

Hope to hear from u!!!!


There is more to it - the way I read it, Jeremy is not a gadget freak. He frequently criticizes the F1 gearbox, selective ride and handling, active brakes, etc in his reviews.

Why? Three reasons:
1. These aspects take away control and involvement from the driver to some degree - particularly wrt SMG
2. He would prefer
a) a car honed to perfection by the factory development team and end up with a car that is not perfect for every occasion or road or whatever but is good mechanically rather than
b) a car that has 3 possible suspension positions to suit different circumstances.
3. These new technologies are still not yet perfected - the SMG is pain to select reverse and don't work well in an auto mode.

This may be clarified by an example - he likes the F355 and F50 a lot - because the cars are mechanically honest - it will do exceptional well on the race track or on smooth roads but will suffer on bad roads. He is willing to accept it warts and all. He criticized the suspension in cars such as the Bentley GT for all its options (soft, firm, etc.) because these settings are not necessarily ideal - soft is too soft, firm is too firm and therefore he will leave it in the auto mode. So he concludes why have three options when one setting is all you will use. He cursed the BMW SMG, Aston semi-auto and Ferrari F1 gearboxes for the additional cost and lack of superiority over the manual boxes

[sameerrao]

Jeremy Clark is a hypocrite.

he whines and dies about all these new electronic automatic transmissions...and WHAT does he drive? an Mercedes SL with a....wait for it.....semi-automatic.


Before this he used to have an F355 with a proper manual transmission. So cut him some slack. And the SL is an automatic anyway you cut it.

There is a difference between an shiftable automatic and semi-automatic like the BMW SMG. A true semi-automatic is a clutchless manual gearbox while the SL has a shiftable automatic.

[teto]

i don´t really know cause i haven´t try a sequential shift...but i can surely tell you that manual is just great for me...it gives you the impretion that you are doing absolutly everything....without help

[Tomerville]

A true sequential manual is amazing, but you burn through clutches like no other...

[RC45]

I think this thread is discussing a number of different things all at once.....

What is really beimg discussed?

Stick shift sequential transmissions...

Paddle shift auto-clutch electronic shift transmissons...

Paddle/button shift semi-auto transmissions...

or

Paddle/button shift full auto transmissions?

[sau_mathur]

i was just hoping to find out what everyone thought about the padle shift f1 style gearbox, as is supplied in the merc sl55amg, and all the ferraris these days, and the traditional manual. But its great the posts that people are putting... gives me more insight into the topic.

[hemi_fan]

I drove a 99' A4 with an autobox that has a semi-auto mode. I didnt really like it. It upshifted really quickly, but the downshifts were really jerky and not very good. Both myself and my dad prefer manuals over that type of tranny, but weve never driven a paddle shift car with no automatic mode, so i dont really have any personal experience with them, but i still think a regular stick would be most fun.

[RC45]

A sequential stick shift seems the best compromise for us "die hard H-gate" fans... :)

[Silvia_Drift]

I don't know why they call it F1 style gear box, mainly be cause an f1 car has 2 sets of paddels, 1 for the clutch another for the gears. If this type of gear box was to be put on a car it wouldn't be that bad, it is manual put the clutch you use with your hands not you foot. and you can jump down gears just like in a stick. i hope this is the way BMW does the new m5, cause "F1 style" is not as good as real F1

The second set of paddles usually isn't used. There is an option for clutch modulation but why would the drivers use that? The clutch is also used for accelerating the car with out launch control (again, why would the drivers do tha?) and if the car is spun, the driver can hold the clutch and try and rev the engine so that the car doesn't stall. I think that is why Ferrari calls its sem-auto "F1 style".

[Sir_GT]

Hmmm...

I myself don't have any experience with any paddle-based transmissions, but I'm looking forward to BMW's new SMGIII attempt that they're reportedly putting into their upcoming M5.

Hopefully it'll be a benchmark offering. If not, I'll wait for the basic manual to be released. I'm sure they'll bring one out anyway, regardless of what they say.

Although, IMO, all you have to look at is the new Carrera GT supercar. Does it have paddles? Nope, but the enzo does. Which one do journalists say is usable everyday? The Carrera. I'm suspecting that the Enzo is better on the track.

I guess it just boils down to what you plan to use the car for. Which is why companies that offer paddle shift should also offer a basic manual option.

...but that's just my opinion. 8)

[N.J.]

Given the choice between a 'real' manual transmission -vs- anything else, I'd take the manual everytime...just ask Tiff :wink:

ie. That Aston Martin Vanquish would have been very nice with a proper manual.






p.s

Have you actually seen how you do a 3 point turn in one of those things?...its just silly.

[schnell318]

I´ve never tried a sequential, i just rode a bunch of times in an M3 SMG and all I can say is that it is really impressive. The speed at which the shifts are made is just amazing. On the other hand, the manual gives you full control as you can control the clutch.

[Sir_GT]

I thought that ferrari already dealt with that 3pt turn thing? I remember their cars with a switch for reverse.

[ahmedgiyab]

I drove a C2 VTR with a sequential gear.... :x It was horrible!!! The shifts were late

2sec!!! Anyway...

If someone had any experience driving both, please tell me:

Which is better the 6speed manual or SMG II. (E46 325i, 330i, M3)???

[artypossum]

I personally think manual gearboxes are better for the raw driving experience. Although sequebtial 'boxes are getting very good these days.

[possessed_beaver]

at the end of the day, a real driver will take a manual gear box anyday.

so you can double clutch yourself, feel one with the car, it would fee; weird with no clutch, my left foot would just sit there and get limp..

[Toronto]

I personally think manual gearboxes are better for the raw driving experience. Although sequebtial 'boxes are getting very good these days.

You know about driving experience at 14?

[ahmedgiyab]

I personally think manual gearboxes are better for the raw driving experience. Although sequebtial 'boxes are getting very good these days.

You know about driving experience at 14?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

F**king cool guy! :lol:

[Sir_GT]

Lol. Nice catch. It's funny how perceptive you were to actually see that chap's age.

Anyway, back to topic: Let's say if, and I mean IF, BMW releases the M5 with a proper F1 style paddle shift, (complete with two sets of paddles for both clutch and gears) wouldn't that solve everything? I mean, theoretically speaking (because I've never driven an F1 car), holding down the clutch paddle would be just the same as leaving the stick in neutral or keeping your foot down on the clutch, allowing you to fly through the gears as you wish.

I mean, imagine heading into a corner at 5th, then holding down the clutch paddle, then downshift to 3rd or 2nd, release the clutch paddle to engine brake, then floor it as you come out of the apex.

IF (I'm guessing, like I said) its supposed to work that way, then that frees up both my feet for some real hardcore brake-gas techniques. Just like in carting.

IF that's the case, I don't see why a paddle shift would differ so much from a manual. With enough practice, somebody could down shift 2-3 gears very quickly, just a quick as slipping the 'box from 6th to a few gears down.

So what's the big deal then?

[RC45]

So what's the big deal then?

Because the sheer cost and complexity of such a system in a daily driven car (not one that gets rebuilt every 6 hours of running) would limit it to $1,000,000 plus cars --

Or, the more likely case, the system will get slimmed/trimmed/adapted until it was cost effective - but no where near what you have described.

Manufacturers can just about build current hi-po cars with clutches and tranny's that can withstand hard-street driving - do you really think the accountants will allow them to build bullet-proof 2-pedal systems for general consumption?

Until then, the H-pattern and 3 pedal set up is probably the best bet for the us "working stiffs"... :P

[Sir_GT]

Ahhhhh i see...

Hmmm...if that's the case, (cost and everything) then I think I'll be putting the downpayment on a 2004 manual M5. :)

Unless of course, BMW does pull off the unthinkable and releases the dual-paddle.

Although I'm not holding my breath for it, it does make me wonder why (in) those new spy pics of the M5, the steering mechanism was covered up while parked.

Seems very suspicious if you ask me.